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KnightofPhoenix wrote: That is very impressive and interesting, I never thought to play the Forgotten in such a way. Worth a shot!
Good luck! I attempted to make a "Peaceful, Economic Forgotten" custom faction (like 30% more dust, 2 extra trade routes, starts with Glassteel/Titanium for Museum, etc) and first attempt (with a much worse starting zone) got turn 80 last science purchase, turn 81 Science Victory.
With some practice and refinement (and a better starting zone) I'm almost wondering if sub-70 is possible.
And I don't think I'm *ever* going to get a turn 81 Science Victory as any other faction!
P.S. Amusingly enough, this is a strategy that gets *harder* on lower difficulties, since the AI will be slower to settle, get up roads, have techs to trade, money/resources to trade, etc.
Eschaton wrote: But I poked around in the game files and noticed there are actually two unused infiltration actions. One is the city option to Leech Trade Routes, and the other is the empire option to Steal Luxury Booster. So I'm curious, would Amplitude want to implement these in the future, or were they left out for balance and/or technical reasons?
Aha! Well spotted
Yes those infiltration actions were tested during development but were eventually dropped and replaced with, if memory serves, the "reduce production" and "reduce morale" actions. As always we're grateful to the VIPs for helping us test these things before they go public.
Forgottens are the best designed race from Endless Legend. Their features are great, the feelings when you play them is very original and feet to their lore. In comparaison, the majority of the civs are pretty naked in term of real game changing features (for exemple mages pillars are fun but changes nothing to the strategy of the civ).
The only problem with Forgottens... it's they are very very weaks in multiplayer, because they cannot rely on their main strength to compensante their economic and science handicaps : the pillage.
Vs A.I you can fill up limitless on their extractors, village etc. the A.I very rarely see you and react. You can then compensate the economic power the others civ have (for exemple the industry and influence bonus of the wild walkers) with the raids.
But, not in multiplayer, where they are very quicky outperformed in science, where infiltration rarely works well because good players knows how to round up with efficacity.
One of the las patch added to them +8 dust to the monument, but it's absolutely not enough to get out their head from the water.
Dear Avilyss i was making a guide on steam and knightofphoenix recommended i come here. Anyways i'm wondering if you would allow me to advertise a link to your guide on the steam community guides page. I'll advertise the link in the table of contents with you as the creator of the guide clearly mentioned.
Unless you are a masochist, this victory should be the farthest thing from your mind
Why do you say this? I haven't put massive effort into optimization, but so far my best science victory time (Endless difficulty, Normal game speed) with no tech trading on one city was in the 160s on Mezari and 130ish on Forgotten. And tech trading or more cities would speed it up for both of them (hilariously, I could have shaved at least another 5-10 turns off the Forgotten time if any of the AI had actually researched one of the Era VI techs (one or more may have gotten Difference Engine, but none of them had an Era VI tech other than that)). I actually wound up winning a simultaneous Economic/Scientific victory since I had to buy out all five Era VI techs -- and it was a mediocre start for the Forgotten too.
In short -- it seems you can probably win Scientific Victory faster with Forgotten than any other race due to cascading Dust income actually "being" science.
I just sped through another game with no tech trading and Forgotten, one city, peaceful. No spying for tech, no pillaging, no nothing. Won Economic Victory turn 126, Science Victory turn 127 (30% research cost thing literally happened as I hit era 6 and I paid an extra 25k for Dust Distillery, wound up being about that much short of buying the final Era VI tech "in time"). Screwed up a lot of stuff as well and had an average start at best. Going to practice refining the technique a bit, probably will also engage in some tech trading and maybe steal a tech or two (but won't have time to steal more than a few later era techs, realistically speaking). Wonder if I can get it below 110.
It gets even more crazy if you do custom Forgotten and scrap stuff like Pillage for Dust Efficient, more trade routes, 30% dust on cities, etc.
New record: turn 111 Science Victory (bought last tech on turn 110). Biggest map possible with 8 opponents, did get a good starting area (lots of dust tiles with both Glass and Titanium, no initial luxes though and only one anomaly) along with Museum (and Megapole, but that's pretty common). On the downside, didn't get the type of governor I wanted until turn 76ish and literally 0 trade routes until turn 94 since not a single AI settled a region surrounding my capital until then. I think if I actually get the trade routes sooner that I might be able to break turn 100 for Science Victory.
That is impressive Balkoth! Did you make all these attempts on a huge map? The AI tends to be a lot more aggressive in smaller maps due to lebensraum, including large with 8 players, so I am not sure going for science victory is that viable when under that much pressure.
But in any case, that is still quite impressive. Well done!
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KnightofPhoenix wrote: That is impressive Balkoth! Did you make all these attempts on a huge map?
I did, with like 80% land. I think it's the first I've *overestimated* the AI's settling capability.
KnightofPhoenix wrote: The AI tends to be a lot more aggressive in smaller maps due to lebensraum, including large with 8 players, so I am not sure going for science victory is that viable when under that much pressure.
Interesting you should say that. See, I decided to redo it on a smaller map in an effort to break turn 100 -- specifically, Large with 8 players. I "cheated" in that I set every opponent to Drakken as well, to ensure I could attempt to propose peace and get map exchanges/good trade routes ASAP. The catch, of course, is that the Drakken seem ridiculously aggressive early game until they get the peace tech...and they ALL know where I am too!
I also had a really bad starting area and spent several turns traveling to what looked like it could be a promising desert...and was. I settled on 4 anomalies (only one minor faction village, though, the 5% Food guys and no early game strategics or luxuries). Missed the Museum by 3 turns (though didn't expect to get it after having to move for several turns and start with the dust heavy desert area)...got the Megapole on turn 37-38 though, which is the earliest I've ever done it.
End result? Turn 93 Science Victory (meaning bought last tech on turn 92).
And I'm sure that more turns could be shaved off as well by someone better/more experienced. I definitely could have sold a lot of my techs to the AI earlier in the game to finance new tech purchases, though I think I did reasonably well at buying/trading for their tech. Also might have worked better to really focus on buying early era techs (late game, that is, because they're much cheaper) unless the tech was really essential -- by the time I got the food techs in Era V, for example, my city probably only had like 20 turns to grow with them. Skipping those and having the citizens on Dust instead would probably have shaved off a turn or three (ditto for some other choices).
Some points to consider...
1. the first Era VI tech (assuming *exactly* 45 techs prior to that) costs 93420 science. Early on I did a one city game with Mezari and got the city to 18k science per turn. A week or two later I repeated the experiment and got the city to 22k science per turn (and we're talking around turn 130-150 range time here for those numbers). But let's even say you manage to get to 30k science a turn through a crazy single city or a well developed empire. If all five techs stayed the same cost and didn't increase, you'd need 467100 science to get all five, which would be 16 turns.
2, the first Era VI tech (assuming *exactly* 45 techs prior to that) costs 93420 dust. This last game, on one city I was making 44k dust per turn on turn 80-85. If all five techs stayed the same cost and didn't increase, you'd need 11 turns to get all five. So the Forgotten already have an "edge" in this regard -- it's easiest to get high dust than high science, basically.
3, the 20% bonus science perk from the Empire Plan is NOT multiplicative on top of everything else. I loaded a save of a game where I had 11596 science in a city...and a whole 468.5 of it was from the Empire Plan.
4, the 20% cost reduction in research from the Forgotten Empire Plan IS multiplicative on top of everything else (well, there's not much else in the category, but yeah). So that 93420 dust for an Era VI tech? Becomes about 74736 dust needed with the Empire Plan. And would take 9 turns to buy five techs at that price.
In my particular game I hit Era VI on turn 83. And bought the fifth tech nine turns later. You would need 50k+ science to accomplish the same feat...and there's no way you have 50k science on turn 83 (or remotely close to it).
Now you might be thinking "Er, every faction can use Roving Clan governors and have better early/mid/late game presence/power/economy/etc." That's completely true. The difference is that none of the other factions can leverage the dust spiral directly INTO science...so the Forgotten can reach the end-game much faster. Any dust that isn't needed for retrofits/heroes/buyouts/etc can be leveraged into science immediately...at a better rate than science itself is due to the 20% discount.
This also is vanilla Forgotten, to restate what I mentioned in previous posts. If you stripped out stuff like Pillage, Search Party, ability to steal tech, etc and replace those with economic traits? Gets even crazier.
TheDeadDude wrote: Dear Avilyss i was making a guide on steam and knightofphoenix recommended i come here. Anyways i'm wondering if you would allow me to advertise a link to your guide on the steam community guides page. I'll advertise the link in the table of contents with you as the creator of the guide clearly mentioned.
I'm flattered, really! I don't mind if you link the guide at all.
With a general understanding of the mindset I play with, let's go over the game stages (Early, Mid, Late, End).
For the Early Game, your focus is going to be on getting your Dust Engine started and your Production Engine started. The basic breakdown is:
Divide your army and explore
Emphasize searching ruins and pacifying villages in the region(s) you're in or will be expanding to
Carefully manage your hero, keep her a governor when possible but don't hesitate to assign her to an army if necessary
Expand rapidly, there is no better time to get your cities made than early when people can't do much about them
Establish your game plan, know how you're going to win and make every decision with that goal in mind
Expanding
Expand deliberately. Spend the early game scouting out territories that are worth expanding to. Plenty of forest tiles, strategic resource deposits (luxury if you plan to use them), good minor faction choices (preferably with more than one village).
Scouting
Stay on the move. Information is the name of the game for the Forgotten. The more you know about your enemy and the less they know about you, the more the deck is stacked in your favor. Try and scout out your enemies' capital cities, check their resource deposit locations and minor factions, get an idea for the type of game they're setting up to play and do start putting together a plan to hinder it.
Caution
Play carefully. The Forgotten want to stay hidden, don't worry about getting the Legendary Deed achievements unless they benefit you (the one that grants an initiative bonus to your armies is worth working toward but only if it's not going to put you into a terrible position). Don't engage in a fight unless you know it's going to end in your favor and focus more on preserving what you have this early in the game.
Midgame
The Midgame transition occurs once you've got your starting cities (recommend between four and six cities if you can get them) and their basic infrastructure laid out. By this point, you should be in Era II and your cities should all have the basic layout for a solid production facility (Mill Foundry, Empire Mint, Seed Storage, Sewer System and Strategic Resource Harvesters).
At this point your focus changes from expansion and developing infrastructure to putting into motion your victory plan. Know what type of victory you're wanting to achieve and begin making every decision with that victory in mind. Your cities should now largely be producing units primarily, only sprinkling in buildings when you purchase a new research that grants an important building (and you should buy the buildings out whenever possible).
It is also around this time that you'll shift your workers primarily to Dust and only move them back to Industry when you really need to. (Spreading them to Food in Winter to prevent starvation if necessary and Influence as necessary to meet Empire Plans and/or execute infiltration actions).
Marketplace
Purchasing the Mercenary Market early isn't vital but getting it before you get to Midgame should be a priority. Pay attention to the Market, especially the heroes and units as you can not only see what's available to you but also track what your enemies are purchasing.
Keep your eyes out for good heroes that are going to help you accomplish your goals. If you see a good governor hero, for instance, grab them and use them to help fuel your engine. If you see a good general, grab them and use them to help your armies. If you see a good spy, grab them and use them to sabotage your enemy.
But don't try to do it all! Get a governor and generals or a governor and spies, get just generals, just spies or just governors but don't try doing all of it or you'll spread yourself too thin. Remember, specialization is important to the Forgotten, grab the heroes that will get you where you're trying to go.
Trade Routes
Building Trade Routes is helpful but not vital, the influx of Dust is helpful but you don't benefit from the Science. The primary benefit is simply the roads, the ability to get around the map easier is pretty beneficial to your overall mobility.
Shipyard
Unless you have a pressing need to get units to another continent or island, this research is a waste of time. Also keep in mind that Forgotten boats do not benefit from stealth.
Managing your Hero(es)
At this point, you should have a primary governor hero complete with the Dust from Forests skill to help power your economy. You should also have or be on the lookout for a good general or spy depending on how you plan on winning the game. Moving your heroes around frequently and keeping them where they're going to give you the most benefit will help immensely.
Research
Moreso than Early Game, it pays to be prudent with your research choices in Midgame. Research begins to get very expensive around Era II and especially Era III so at this point it becomes very important to choose your research path carefully. Make sure you take research that gives you a benefit you can exercise to accomplish victory, otherwise it's probably not worth the investment.
Late Game
The Late Game transition occurs when Guardians start hitting the field and you're no longer laying the foundation for your victory condition, you're actively executing it. Keep in mind that if you're executing your victory condition plan, so are your enemies! At this point in the game your ability to purchase research is severely hampered, your opponents are likely eclipsing you in terms of research (most of them are in Era III maybe even Era IV and you're likely still in Era II or have just hit Era III). It is at this point in the game where Infiltration can begin to benefit you the most in terms of stealing technology if you need it.
Late game is essentially Midgame with escalation. Bigger units, bigger cities, bigger numbers but ultimately the same game. The added difficulty here is that you will almost inevitably be behind your enemies in terms of research and technology, a weakness that you'll compensate for by hindering your opponents and continuing to play the information game. Pillaging occurs very quickly at this point in the game and making good use of your stealth to track and ambush enemy armies will help you punish any mistakes they make.
Endgame
The Endgame. This is what it has all been leading to. Endgame occurs when you're no longer engaging in skirmishes and simply trying to hinder your opponents but are now putting the finishing touches on your victory.
At this point, you should no longer be worried about research and the Dust Engine you've spent most of the game building and maintaining now becomes your greatest asset. The combination of high production on your cities and a vast stockpile of Dust should allow you to quickly and efficiently field armies, make purchases from the marketplace and stay in competition with your enemies.
An interesting way to play Forgotten Balkoth but it seems like a lot of manipulation goes into it to make it possible.
Let me explain the reasoning behind the original statement:
While a Science Victory is definitely possible, I think it's ultimately inefficient. Your observations regarding how the bonuses and Empire Plan work not withstanding, the Forgotten will generally not have many opportunities to advance Science at the rate needed to achieve victory against a skilled opponent.
Some observations on my end: The smallest map you played on is Large (correct me if I'm wrong), which provides a lot more liberty for expansion, reduces aggression, reduces expansion pressure, increases resource availability, increases overall economy availability and increases travel time for enemy units to and through your territory. Most games I've seen played are on Normal or smaller map sizes which changes the landscape quite a bit. Namely, it forces you to invest a lot more into military in order to avoid getting overrun by an adversary playing a strong military game, lowers the overall economy on the map (reducing Dust availability without reducing the cost of the research) and reducing the number of expansions you're able to procure.
It should also be noted that this guide was written not just from a "versus AI" standpoint but also for multiplayer and most of the points and suggestions made within it are under that context. A human opponent is going to be doing a lot more to disrupt your science game than an AI opponent will. First, you certainly won't have as much success trading techs for Dust to a human opponent because if you're outpacing them that severely in science, they're going to know what you're doing with your economy. You're also going to have to contend with them being more adept at harassing your cities and units, snatching important territories from you and generally disrupting your play style.
I don't dispute that what you've suggested is possible and it is certainly very interesting and a unique way to play the Forgotten that I might play around with a bit myself. I've simply found in my limited experience that a decent Vaulters or Ardent Mages player is going to outpace your science growth and most players will keep you under pressure sufficiently enough to keep your Dust invested elsewhere other than science.
Avilyss wrote: While a Science Victory is definitely possible, I think it's ultimately inefficient.
Isn't that true for every faction?
Avilyss wrote: The smallest map you played on is Large (correct me if I'm wrong), which provides a lot more liberty for expansion, reduces aggression, reduces expansion pressure, increases resource availability, increases overall economy availability and increases travel time for enemy units to and through your territory. Most games I've seen played are on Normal or smaller map sizes which changes the landscape quite a bit. Namely, it forces you to invest a lot more into military in order to avoid getting overrun by an adversary playing a strong military game, lowers the overall economy on the map (reducing Dust availability without reducing the cost of the research) and reducing the number of expansions you're able to procure.
Honestly? I only played on Large to guarantee every luxury, because not having access to Glasssilk from the market or trade would be crippling. Keep in mind this is also on ONE city. Ever. I had no expansions at all. Which means I'm not sure why it would lower the economy -- technically the trade routes would be slightly worse since they can't cover as much ground, but it wouldn't change all that much. I was also actually selling a lot of military units due to immense production -- could have easily just, y'know, kept those without sacrificing too many turns overall.
Avilyss wrote: It should also be noted that this guide was written not just from a "versus AI" standpoint but also for multiplayer and most of the points and suggestions made within it are under that context.
I mean no offense, but I didn't get that impression. Things like the governor choice felt more like single player "lore" choices -- 2 influence per level, 4 dust per level, and 5 dust from forest tiles? I'd much rather have governors like the Wild Walker hero with 4 food per level, 6 industry per level, +1 industry on forests, 20ish raw production, 24% cheaper buildings, 45% industry bonus, and 90% reduced city upkeep. Or the Necrophage with 6 food per level, 4 industry per level, 24% cheaper units, 30 raw food, and 45% growth. Or several other choices. Especially since you advised limiting boroughs, which drastically limits the benefits of that +5 dust per forest tile.
My goal here isn't to go through the guide and try to pick it apart...but it didn't really read like a "ruthless multiplayer guide" when I went through it.
Avilyss wrote: A human opponent is going to be doing a lot more to disrupt your science game than an AI opponent will. First, you certainly won't have as much success trading techs for Dust to a human opponent because if you're outpacing them that severely in science, they're going to know what you're doing with your economy. You're also going to have to contend with them being more adept at harassing your cities and units, snatching important territories from you and generally disrupting your play style.
I'll point out that I literally never traded techs for Dust except to buy the final Era VI tech and shave off a turn. I also wasn't outpacing the AI -- I was trading them good techs in earlier eras they had skipped at the time. The adept at harassing and such applies to all factions as well -- everything is "slower" in multiplayer as a result. But since this strategy is based on one city, it's basically like playing a Cultist style game...except you don't have to go out and convert villages or conquer people.
Avilyss wrote: I've simply found in my limited experience that a decent Vaulters or Ardent Mages player is going to outpace your science growth and most players will keep you under pressure sufficiently enough to keep your Dust invested elsewhere other than science.
*Every* faction is going to outpace your science for a long time. Then you pick up a bit with the Transmuter/Refinery/Highway Outposts. Then pick up even more with National Craftworks. Then bulldoze ahead with Customs House. It's like Broken Lords...except instead of buying population with Dust, you buy Science with Dust. Slow start, insane end-game.
As Mezari, for example, I'm usually picking up a tech every 3-4ish turns for a long time. As Forgotten, that's more like every 7-8 turns starting in Era II...then wind up buying 4-5 techs in ONE turn end-game.
As I said, you've found an interesting and inventive way to play the Forgotten and I don't have any intention of saying that what you've suggested is inferior or inadvisable, simply that it isn't a style I've had a lot of experience playing with and why I originally suggested avoiding a Science Victory in this guide.
That's a fair point, and I think most people haven't even considered it either. And, in all seriousness, I might never have considered it...except the person who got me Endless Legend as a gift a month ago said "Win a Science Victory with the Forgotten on Endless and then I'll bow to your mastery!" So I spent a fair amount of effort trying to figure it out -- and originally I was relying on trading for 1-2 of the Era VI techs and buying the other 3-4. And then I noticed I could win Science faster as Forgotten than as the "actual" Science factions.
I'm also working on a guide for it, inspired by this guide, hopefully can post it (new thread) today or tomorrow. Won't be as in-depth as yours at first, but want to get it out there and edit in more stuff later, y'know?
Balkoth wrote: I'm also working on a guide for it, inspired by this guide, hopefully can post it (new thread) today or tomorrow. Won't be as in-depth as yours at first, but want to get it out there and edit in more stuff later, y'know?
Please do. If you´re beating Endless with a single forgotten city without Animal Husbandry by turn 80, there must be something you´re doing very right.
It´s also worth noting that on smaller maps you´d get the economic victory before the scientific one, so that´s a great reason why "this victory should be the farthest thing from your mind" in op´s words.
BPrado wrote: Please do. If you´re beating Endless with a single forgotten city without Animal Husbandry by turn 80, there must be something you´re doing very right.
Like I said, I'm still new to the game, but I'm not really seeing the point of the Husbandry Center -- with the exceptions of "Tons of Industry for Settlers and then use Husbandry to grow back up for the next one" and "Need to grow city to 30 size/15 districts for Legendary Deed." Neither of which is relevant for one city.
BPrado wrote: It´s also worth noting that on smaller maps you´d get the economic victory before the scientific one, so that´s a great reason why "this victory should be the farthest thing from your mind" in op´s words.
Looked at some stuff, and it seems you're right on 2 or 4 person maps (unless you can trade for an Era VI tech or two, but these wins are so fast that even Endless AI don't have those techs). 6 person maps is entirely doable, though if you try to work Dust rather than Industry for buildings or units (which is less efficient for making buildings/units so that's already a bad idea) then you could win presumably win Economic Victory on 6 person prior to Science Victory.
On the flip side, being able to win Economic Victory that early is still faster than probably every other faction. And it's about spiraling out of control once you start getting Dust Techs. Even Broken Lords can't literally just buy Dust Driven Distillery the instant they hit Era VI.
I think sometimes the most efficient way to play isn't always the most fun or interesting.
I also think that EL isn't exactly meant to be the most balanced game ever; within reasonable imagination, but not to exact/precise levels.
When I first started playing EL, it was all about figuring out the mechanics and becoming as efficient as possible; now, it's about making my games as interesting as possible.
It would probably be more interesting for Forgotten to not be able to buy science better than they can spy it.
lilyophelia wrote: I think sometimes the most efficient way to play isn't always the most fun or interesting.
I also think that EL isn't exactly meant to be the most balanced game ever; within reasonable imagination, but not to exact/precise levels.
When I first started playing EL, it was all about figuring out the mechanics and becoming as efficient as possible; now, it's about making my games as interesting as possible.
It would probably be more interesting for Forgotten to not be able to buy science better than they can spy it.
I also have the same perspective. Fluff and awesomeness will always trump balance in my eyes, though of course I would still advocate for a reasonable state of balance.
The cool thing about Endless Legend though is how it seems to attract both crowds and maintain a delicate balance between two extremes, which isn't always easy. It also helps that we are a small and adorable community.
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I got EL recently, and this guide gave some me good pointers for my first game as the Forgotten. Though it's not like I was really optimizing anything since I wanted to do the faction quest at least once, but those handful of heroes you get at the end are pretty handy when you want to take out the fortifications of four capitals simultaneously.
But I poked around in the game files and noticed there are actually two unused infiltration actions. One is the city option to Leech Trade Routes, and the other is the empire option to Steal Luxury Booster. So I'm curious, would Amplitude want to implement these in the future, or were they left out for balance and/or technical reasons?
DISCLAIMER: I do not claim to be an expert nor will I pretend that my ideas are somehow superior to anyone else's or that there is only "one" right way to play the Forgotten. This guide is simply intended as a place to put my personal thoughts and experiences in this faction down and hope that maybe someone else benefits from it or shares their thoughts and together everyone gets better.
INTRODUCTION
My name is Avilyss, I've not been playing Endless Legend for probably nearly as long as many of the frequenters of these forums have but I usually am a quick study and have a mind for strategy. I've been a major fan of the Forgotten faction ever since it came out and I've been spending a lot of time testing it out, especially in the early game, and I'd like to put down my thoughts and experiences here. This guide could possibly be called "comprehensive" since it's going to go over every aspect of the game and its relation to the Forgotten but I'll simply call it a guide based on my own limited understanding. Also, I do not play with Custom Factions, so I'll be talking about the basic, default Forgotten.
STARTING THE GAME
After playing several games (upwards of thirty) as the Forgotten, focusing primarily on turns 1-60, I've found that generally the best result for getting a solid start is to focus on Production (like most factions) and you should place your starting location with that in mind. I strongly recommend placing your starting city in a forest, preferably with as many exploit tiles on forest tiles as you can. Forests will become very helpful at every stage of the game and I'll explain why throughout the guide. For now, just remember: Production and Forests.
First Turn
Set your first Worker on Production and immediately begin building the Founder's Stone.
Purchase the "Language Square" research
Divide your army so that one Assassin is going one way and one Assassin and your starting hero are going another way
If there is a minor faction village in your region within movement distance of your hero army, go ahead and move there and Parley
If there is no village within movement distance of your hero, unassign your hero and reassign her to be governor of your starting city
This will be the only turn that I provide play-by-play for, as it will generally be the same in every game and it's vital to get the setup correct. The reason for researching Language Square right away is that your army is relatively weak compared to most factions and trying to forcibly pacify a starting village will cost you a lot more than it's worth. Ideally, you'll be able to get a quest to pacify and be able to do the quest before turn 18. (Sooner, the better)
Pacing Research with Production
Specifically for your first city and the early game research, the game will show you how to pace your research. I typically suggest the following research order:
Language Square (Purchased on Turn 1) -> Mill Foundry -> Empire Mint -> Cultivation -> Public Sewer System
Pacing will be based on the Production of your first city. When Founder's Stone is one turn away from completion, purchase Mill Foundry and immediately queue it up for production. When your Mill Foundry is one turn away, purchase Empire Mint and queue it up. Repeat this pattern all the way through the Public Sewer System. Reasons for these researches and this order:
Mill Foundry: Provides much needed Production to help expedite the initial infrastructure and thus reduces the time required to set up the rest of the buildings, should be priority one
Empire Mint: Generating a Dust engine early will allow you to keep pace in the early game. This is more important than growing population because the sooner you get a good Dust engine going, the sooner you'll be able to capitalize on the strength of the Forgotten
Cultivation: Seed Storage for increased Food which helps your city naturally grow
Sewer System: Probably one of the best starting buildings for the Forgotten, the increase in approval means an increase in Production and Food, both are very helpful for the continued pacing of the game
Managing Your Starting Hero
Third Builder Gula Yawa has a versatile but ultimately ineffective spread of starting abilities. She's got Army Initiative Boost 2 as a general, Dust Boost 2 as a governor and Spying 4 as an infiltrator. One of the struggles the Forgotten face in the early game is the general weakness of their units which forces them to rely on the assistance of their hero for early game conflicts. However, using her a governor actually provides a larger benefit to the overall success of your early game. The Dust Boost she provides makes hitting the research checkpoints much easier as well as allows you to build an early surplus of Dust to use at turn 20 when you're going to do a series of rapid buyouts.
Managing Gula should follow this basic pattern: Keep Gula as the governor whenever she's not required for a fight or completion of a minor faction quest. Reassign her as necessary to an army when a fight is unavoidable or when you're going to hit several villages or ruins with an army in a turn or two (a quick experience point injection). Your first skill point for her should be the faction point that allows quicker reassigning as this will make managing her much easier.
The best governor hero I've seen for the Forgotten is Consecrate, she provides both a Dust and Influence Boost as a governor but she seems to be a very rare hero on the market so relying on her acquisition is a risk and I don't bank on chance as a rule. So I tend to gear Gula as a governor. As she levels, I put points into the Faction skill that gives Dust on forest tiles and if you built your first city surrounded by forests, you'll soon have a very good Dust engine as you move into the mid-game, this will allow you to not only keep pace with research but have the Dust necessary for emergency buyouts.
Reassign Gula to the army as necessary but generally, I recommend keeping her assigned as a governor, the benefit to your overall Empire is truly invaluable.
Managing Your Capital
Managing your Capital City is important in any faction. Keep your workers primarily on Production and Dust, moving them to Influence whenever you need to bank up Influence (such as for upcoming Empire Plans) and moving them to Food during Winter if necessary to prevent starvation.
Approval is extremely important to the Forgotten, as it allows you to minimize the investment needed in Food and Production by providing a passive boost to both. Thus, avoid building District Expansions (Burrough Streets), these should be reserved specifically for picking up anomalies, strategic resources, luxury resources or an influx of either Dust or Production (expanding toward forests is always good if you're going to expand as it will continue to capitalize on your Hero's governing abilities).
SPECIALIZATION
The Forgotten do not have the luxury of being indecisive. Their dependence on Dust and the exponential increase in research costs leaves no room for unnecessary investment, long term planning is the key. Taking researches you need that will help you reach your endgame goal is essential, do not waste time on research that isn't going to help you reach that goal or you'll only make things more difficult for yourself.
Decide which victory condition you're going to reach for as early as possible and tailor every decision you make toward reaching that goal. If you're going for Supremacy, start getting eyes on your enemies' capital cities, if you're going for Elimination, invest time, research and Dust into advancing your military and spend a significant amount of time pacifying and assimilating minor factions whose units will cover your units weaknesses.
As covered above, stealth is a feature the Forgotten are designed around. Capitalize on it by keeping your opponents in the dark regarding troop number, type and location and move carefully around the map to avoid detection and unnecessary engagements. The less your opponents know about you and the more you know about them, the better off you are.
Focusing on your own faction units allows your armies to stay invisible to the opponent, making it impossible to keep track of your unit count, type and positioning. Use this to your advantage. Keep armies close to one another in the same region but spread out enough that a unit spotting one won't necessarily spot the others. When fights are committed, your opponent will not see reinforcements on the summary screen that he can't see on the map, so you can have waves of reinforcements coming that your opponent is completely unaware of, set this up intentionally and ambush your enemies.
Keep units like Predatore and Assassins in flanking armies, allow them to quickly join in and start targeting down key enemies while your Mysts do most of the frontline work. Move carefully around the map to be able to discreetly pillage and spy on enemy movements. Use all of this to your advantage.
Infiltration
Every faction can use infiltration but only the Forgotten really excel at it. Think of infiltration as a form of both psychological warfare and one of the Forgotten's best methods for "closing the gap" between themselves and their enemies (in terms of research, unit power, income, city development, etc).
Infiltration is neat and you can do some really neat things with it, but like all things related to the Forgotten, you can't afford to be indecisive. If you choose in infiltrate, you need to have a clearly defined plan and timeline for why you're doing so. Otherwise you're simply wasting your hero, who could be serving as a general or governor for benefit elsewhere.
Below is a list of infiltration actions, which point in the game it's most useful, what level I recommend doing it at and some details about the action.
Actions that reveal where your spy is located
These actions don't necessarily put out a notice to the infiltrated player that your spy is in their city, but an observant player would notice them taking place and be alerted to the presence of your spy. Use these abilities carefully and with intent because it's likely you'll have to leave the city afterward.
Reduce Population
(Level 4 or 5, Best done during Winter, Midgame or Late Game)
I'll go ahead and state it, this is the absolute best function for your infiltrating spy in my opinion. This single action alone does so much to hurt your opponent and there's no way to expedite recovery from it without inflicting further harm. I do NOT recommend using this action against the Broken Lords because they will simply buy their population back for a nominal price and you'll have exposed your spy and done nothing.
If done during the Winter, the recovery period is even longer as population growth is severely stunted in the winter and, if the game kills the Food workers they've put there to stave off starvation, could trigger starvation in the city.
Yes, this action will reveal the location of your spy if the owner of the city is paying attention and sees population suddenly missing from his city (or gets a starvation notice). However, it has the added benefit of crippling the "Roundup" feature, as it reduces the security bonus they achieve (because it's based on population), which makes catching your spy much harder and, by the time they could probably try and roundup your spy, you could do it again.
Damage Fortification
(Level 4 or 5 Midgame, Late Game or Endgame)
Consistent with the Forgotten's "swoop in and take them by surprise" battle strategy, this infiltration ability can make capturing a city, even a capital, happen almost instantly. When done at level 4, this ability effectively damages the Fortification value of the city to the maximum value of its Fortification rating. (So, if a city's max value is 800, then it will deal 800 damage to the Fortifications, regardless of its current value). This means that if you've been setting the city to siege and the current value is 400, then you'll effectively deal 400 damage to every unit in the city. (400 Fortification - 800 damage = 400 damage to each unit in the garrison) which can immediately clean out an entire garrison. If done at level 5, it reduces the Fortification value to 0 for 12 turns. This means that the city will literally have no fortification, it won't heal and it won't protect anything in the garrison. Choose which level you wish to use the ability at based on the situation at hand but no matter what you choose, make sure you're attacking the city immediately afterward or you're wasting the action and revealing the location of your spy.
Halt Production
(Level 5, any time)
This ability is best used against Tall Empires. At level 5, it literally stops any and all production on the city which means nothing can be built and, more importantly, nothing can be bought at that city for 12 turns. It effectively puts the city in stasis for 12 turns. A smart player can divert the workers to Dust or Influence for 12 turns to try and minimize the setback but if this ability is triggered when they're in the middle of producing something really important (like a Wonder or a legendary building) then you can set an opponent back incredibly far. Be advised that use of this ability will almost indefinitely trigger a "roundup" at the city and it's best to exfiltrate your spy shortly afterward.
Actions that do not reveal the location of your spy
These abilities are Empire-Wide and thus don't reveal the location of your spy. You can do these with a little more freedom but again, make sure you do everything intentionally, don't waste time or be indecisive.
Steal Technology
(Level 3 Midgame, Level 4 Late Game, Level 5 Endgame)
I actually do not recommend using this ability unless absolutely necessary. One, it resets your infiltration level and (more importantly) relying on this ability can reveal your spy (get them caught or disabled) and implies that you don't have the Dust Engine and Economy you need to sustain yourself. This ability becomes a little more effective in the later parts of the game where you're inevitably going to fall behind in research and can be used to save large chunks of Dust to acquire vital research but otherwise this ability is generally not an optimal use of your infiltrator.
Reduce Vision
(Level 4 or 5, Late Game, Endgame)
The biggest advantage to this ability is that it hurts detectors, including Watchtowers. If you're going to use this ability make sure that you capitalize on it! This ability will allow you to freely move across territory, setting up ambushes, pillaging key resource harvesters and villages and destroying Watchtowers.
Reduce Morale
(Level 3, 4 or 5, Midgame, Late Game, Endgame)
Another very powerful ability that an infiltrator can do and, more importantly, a very subtle one. Your opponent isn't likely to realize you've done this to their empire until they initiate a fight, this ability also single-handedly closes the gap between your units and your opponent's units. Your units go from being slightly weaker in a straight fight to overwhelmingly effective, especially when coupled with a high morale bonus of your own. Use this ability any time you are forced to engage in a long, drawn-out campaign against an adversary who has been building their military power.
Faction-Specific Infiltration Abilities
These abilities are recommended ONLY against certain factions as their benefits are most recognized against them.
Target the Governor
(Level 5, Cultists, Roving Clans)
I recommend only using this ability at its level 5 stage. Level 4 is decent, putting the hero in disabled status but they can buy them out relatively quickly. Level 5 puts the hero in your academy with a 30 turn cooldown and you can ransom the hero back to them or simply hold them for 30 turns. This ability is extremely effective against factions that rely heavily on governors to function, namely the Cultists and the Roving Clans.
It's effective because even if you can't attack the city after removing the governor, the loss of the governor bonuses can severely hamper the progress of these two factions. Use it wisely and try to time it around Empire Plans and/or Winter.
Leech Trade Routes
(Level 5, Roving Clans)
Pretty much self explanatory. Not only does this severely hamper the Roving Clans' victory progress but it substantially boosts your ability to make bank and have a Dust storage.
Decrease Diplomatic Cost
(Level 4 or 5, Drakken)
The only "counter" you have against the Drakken's force diplomacy ability is this. It substantially reduces the Influence Cost for breaking alliance and peace treaties and allows you a great deal more liberty in dealing with them. As the reduction is 10 turns, they can't effectively counter your ability to fight them for the next 10 turns. Make the most of them that you can.
FACTION TACTICS, TIPS AND TRICKS
Units
Generally speaking you're going to want to use primarily your own faction units, minor faction units do not have stealth and can dramatically reduce your ability to remain hidden. The exception to this rule is once you have a hero with the ability to make an entire army benefit from stealth. The thing about the faction units is that they're not designed for straight toe-to-toe confrontation but rather emphasize quick movement, ambushing and mobility. Below is a quick write-up of the three basic units of the faction and how to capitalize on their use.
Assassin
Perhaps one of the most underrated units in the game, the Assassin has a couple of unique abilities that make it live up to its name. The Assassin is not a frontline unit. The key to the Assassin's capability is one singular trait: Acrobat. Combined with a high Initiative and some movement speed increases, the Assassin's ability to move through enemy units makes it uniquely suited to bypassing the enemy's frontline units and targeting their softer support and ranged units in the back. This unit can wreak havoc on a formation line and its high damage output allows it to very quickly bring down enemy units that they would otherwise try shielding.
Failing that, use their high initiative to force the enemy units to attack them rather than your softer units. They can easily force units to burn their attacks on countering, thus eliminating their ability to focus down your other units. Assassins should be a part of any Forgotten army composition at every stage of the game.
Equipment: The default two-sword set up is a decent set up for general purpose work, providing a slight boost in defense and the "infantry slayer" ability. When fighting against most minor factions and even most major faction units, this setup will serve you just fine. However, setting them up with an axe in their main-hand and a sword in their off-hand has proven to be the most effective set up. You gain the Ranged Slayer and Infantry Slayer traits as well as a small initiative boost. I recommend setting them up this way at the very beginning (retrofitting is free) and simply upgrade the weapons as you go.
Predatore
The slowest unit (in terms of initiative) in the Forgotten arsenal, they are also the only ranged unit you'll get. They're not particularly tough and their low initiative makes them vulnerable to cavalry and other high-initiative, high move speed units. I find the Predatore function best as ambush units. Don't have them in your main army, leave them a few tiles away from your army, hidden from view and allow them to join the fight as ambush units. Their stacking damage debuff allows them to very quickly pick apart larger, tougher units that your Assassins are going to be avoiding.
Alternatively, you can have them positioned in the back of a fight and have them slowly move forward, engaging from cliffs and the cover of trees to pick off units. Either way, I would use them opposite the way I'd normally use ranged units, have them focus on the tougher, frontline units or the cavalry units make them weak enough for your Assassins to pick them off.
Equipment: The default two-crossbow setup works decently for general purposes. The "point-blank power" allows them to do more damage when being attacked (which they will be, A LOT) but ultimately is only effective when they're on the defensive, which is never where you want them to be anyway (especially since they don't apply their damage debuff when countering). Unfortunately, there really isn't a better setup for them so leave it as is. Once again, focus on Glasteel for the Initiative bonus.
Myst
Flying. High Initiative. High Attack. High Defense. These units are your mainstay, your actual "frontline" units and arguably one of the best weapons in your army. Their ability Faster Than Shadows makes them extremely dangerous to cluttered up enemies, coupled with their high initiative and high defense, they can get in, do a great deal of damage and live to do it again. Use them to get into the face of your enemy's cluttered units and dish out the pain early, their speed and flying attributes allow them to quickly move to key points on the battlefield and strike where they can do the most damage.
Equipment: Originally they are equipped with claws, which are two-handed weapons that provide the "Sweep Strikes Back" ability, which hits every enemy unit around them when countering. If you've set your army up for high initiative (which you should) then this ability will hardly ever be used as most units will not have nearly the initiative the Myst does. However, claws also have a very high damage output. Consider switching the longspears if you're against a large number of cavalry units but otherwise claws work just fine.
EMPIRE PLAN
Every twenty turns (on standard speed) a new Empire Plan becomes available, every (20-6) turns, (14, 34, 54, 74, etc) you'll receive a notification about an upcoming Empire Plan. This notification is your trigger to do the math on what plan points you want, how much influence it will cost and start rearranging your workers accordingly. Your first Empire Plan should be "wide" meaning +3 Dust Per Worker and -20% Cost Reduction for Research. This will give you the biggest jump start to your research and Dust production for the rest of the game.
Plan to expand your Empire Plan according to your victory plan and needs. For example, if you plan on winning primarily through military conquest, then investing the 20% Unit Production Cost Reduction and 30% Increase Damage on units are good investments. If you plan on playing the Infiltration game, then investing in sight range increase and the Approval rating bonus are good investments. You should never turn off the first two points
Earlier I mentioned that you need to specialize if you hope to compete. This remains true. Once you have a victory path decided, make sure every action you take and every decision you make will bring you closer to that victory condition, if it doesn't then you don't really have the time or resources for it. With that in mind, I'm outlining some general tips on how to pursue certain victory conditions, how that will affect your game plan and strategy and some mistakes to avoid.
Quest Victory
Unless you are planning to win through Faction Quests, don't even bother doing your Faction Quests. They require you to completely sidetrack your opening strategy, waste time with your hero and send you sprawling over the map for very little return on your investment. I won't go into too much detail, but I'll illustrate my point on the first few quests.
The first quest requires you to pacify a minor faction village. Sometimes this can be easily done through Parley but often times it's not and the amount of time and investment you'll put into pacifying that village quickly sidetracks your other endeavors. Whether its military and having to pull Gula away from governance to assist the army, bribery which will slow down your research checkpoints or completing a lengthy and complicated pacification quest, this first quest alone significantly reduces your early game efficiency.
The second quest requires you to search a ruins that is often a significant distance from your starting region and you will have to fight two Predatore units, which will require your hero or more units, as your starting Assassins will have trouble beating the Predatore by themselves, especially if you did the military option to pacify the village. The reward is two quest-class Predatore units which can't be upgraded, making them increasingly ineffective as the game progresses.
The third quest requires you to infiltrate an enemy Major Faction city and reach infiltration level 3. Not only is this a significant time sink, it also requires you to completely forego the ability to use your starting hero as either a governor or a general, leaving your weaker-than-average army to fend for itself and/or denying the very necessary Dust boost to get your early bankroll.
The fourth quest then requires you to investigate another ruins to receive a new hero: Ziema. If you're going to do the Faction Quests and aren't doing the Faction Quest victory, then this is the point where you stop. You've already lost a significant amount of time and investment just getting this far and the hero you've received is not a very good hero. The next quest requires you to level her to level 3 and invest into the "Double or Nothing" skill at level 2, which is only effective if you're making her a spy...and then you're awarded with a pair of swords for a general hero.
All-in-all, unless you're going for Faction Quest victory, I'd completely ignore all of the Forgotten quests.
Scientific Victory
Unless you are a masochist, this victory should be the farthest thing from your mind.
Diplomatic Victory
While not exactly suited to it, this victory is actually achievable by the Forgotten in an underhanded way. While the Drakken are clearly the superior choice for this type of victory, the Forgotten can actually capitalize on the Inflitration aspect of their heroes to make Diplomacy Victory that much easier. By using the Infiltration actions Reduced Diplomatic Cost and a combination of either Target the Governor (Capturing them to use as ransom and force treaties, alliances and other things), or other hindering tactics as a way of saying "Befriend me or suffer," the Forgotten can actually "force" diplomacy as well and in a much more enjoyable way, in my opinion.
Most effective against AI opponents, you could have a lot of fun doing it in multiplayer but don't expect to actually win.
Expansion Victory
Possible but the Forgotten are ill-suited to defending so much territory. They could do it with a constant outflow of units from sprawling cities focused on production, but ultimately this type of victory requires a great deal of staying power, which the Forgotten simply don't have.
Economic Victory
Definitely possible but don't try beating a Roving Clans player to it or you'll be in for disappointment.
Elimination Victory
Possible. Requires a bit more investment into military power than normal and will likely require the integration of some minor faction units to give you some "tank" presence on the battlefield but the right combination of Guardians and faction units is definitely possible for long-term military campaigns.
Supremacy Victory
Your preferred form of victory. There are several ways to achieve it but the easiest way is through Infiltration. Get a spy going in the capital, Damage the Fortifications and steamroll the Garrison. Made significantly easier if they never see your army approaching the capital.
Wonder Victory
This would require you to create a tall empire rather than a sprawling one and will significantly reduce your military presence. You don't have particularly strong units so only being able to produce them a few at a time will make you easier to conquer by those with bigger, stronger units than you have. It's definitely possible but you're not particularly suited to it.
Time Victory
It is very unlikely that you'll win through this victory type simply because you'll be unable to keep up in score when you start being eclipsed in research. You can win this way but it will require hampering your opponents through infiltration and harassment to keep their scores low as well.
FINAL THOUGHTS
The Forgotten require you to play the game like Chess. Always anticipate your opponent and move to counter them, most of the fight is psychological and any engagement should be over before it even began. Pay extreme attention to cities your spies are in and watch for sudden increases in security rating (roundup) or workers being shifted to Influence or Production as it usually indicates something big is about to happen.
Be deliberate. Every purchase you make, especially in terms of research, should contribute to your victory or help cover a weakness or emphasize a strength. You don't have time for anything else.
Be careful. Never get into a hurry, pay attention to your enemies' movements, researches, units and patterns.
Focus on Production, not Dust. Your Dust will take care of itself if you don't waste it on things like unit buyouts and worthless research.
Use stealth to your advantage. Set up ambushes, keep your armies hidden and don't let your opponents see you moving toward objectives.
Remember "out of sight, out of mind." There's a good chance players are going to be busy with one another, if you don't give them a reason to watch you, they're less likely to keep themselves distracted doing so.
I hope this lengthy guide is helpful to some and I'm always open to discussion and advice. I'll edit it and adjust it as I learn more. I suppose what I'm trying to emphasize is that playing Forgotten requires you to think like the Forgotten and play them differently than you would any other Faction because, like every unique faction in Endless Legend, they're their own beast and need to be handled as such.
The fourth quest then requires you to investigate another ruins to receive a new hero: Ziema. If you're going to do the Faction Quests and aren't doing the Faction Quest victory, then this is the point where you stop. You've already lost a significant amount of time and investment just getting this far and the hero you've received is not a very good hero. The next quest requires you to level her to level 3 and invest into the "Double or Nothing" skill at level 2, which is only effective if you're making her a spy...and then you're awarded with a pair of swords for a general hero.
Actually, once Zeima acquires the Double or Nothing skill at level 2, her skills reset, allowing you to re-invest the ability points in general skills. In addition to the weapons you get (which are quite potent), Zeima also acquires "Fast Learner", making her one of the best generals in the game. I say it's definitely worth it.
Other than that, I agree with the guide in general and follow a very similar approach myself when playing the Forgotten. Only thing I'd add is that I equip my Assassins with a sword and an axe off-hand for the Infantry and Ranged slayer combo. That, and I equip them with "glory or death", which gives them +1 morale for every adjacent enemy. The combination of the item with their acrobat skill is quite potent, making them excellent at disrupting enemy formations, while Mysts manoeuvre around the flanks.
While the Forgotten have one of the most fragile armies, they also have one of the strongest synergies imo. Assassins disrupt formations and attack targets of opportunity, Predatores target heroes or high hp units, while Mysts wipe out more fragile units. And Zeima becomes a powerhouse, capable of dishing out and taking substantial damage.
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Thank you KnightofPhoenix for the correction and the additions! I actually hadn't noticed her skill points resetting...not sure how I missed that but that does tend to change the landscape a bit. I suppose going that far into the quests and simply selling off the two quest Predatore since you can't upgrade them would be prudent, I'll have to play with that some more.
I also agree with the synergy and I will incorporate your advice on the Assassin composition into my playstyle and the guide as well. Thanks for the feedback!
Good job, man. I also agree a lot with your guide.
Regarding the quest: I also don´t think it´s great past the point you get Ziema; and unless using her as a spy is exactly what I need by the point I find her (which to be fair is pretty common), I don´t bother too much with not following it through. The glassteel blades are pretty sweet, but most Ruin Quest swords are better, even Ayah´s arm or wtv. Double Shard of Icarael is incomparably better.
Anyway, either you´re using her as a Spy at first to make use of the required traits or you´re running around paying for a weak hero with useless traits. The problem of using her as a Spy is that there´s always that slim chance that in your second attempt at stealing things she´s caught and imprisoned for god knows how long - which is precisely what happened in the only game I won with them against the AI lately, one I posted a while back.
Regarding assassins: After tier 1 iron, i´ve been using axes with swords in the offhand. I find that the extra initiative is more decisive than the extra defense.
BPrado is right, sword on the off-hand is better. I only discovered this recently, as I bothered studying the stats more meticulously. Slipped my mind, thanks for reminding!
I have to say though that while there are better weapons, the double glassteel weapons are still quite good and can be equipped relatively quickly at little cost. But to me, the main benefit for following through that quest is for Zeima to get "Fast Learner." That's not going to make her on the same level as the Drakken starting general, but it's a pretty damn good trait. That, and you get to re-spend all her ability points however way you please.
In my (limited SP) experience, I found her one of the best generals to have.
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Thanks again guys. I'll play around with the quests and Ziema a bit and see if the pay-off is worth the investment. It's a significant investment to get that far into the quests and honestly seems to do more to set you back than to help you, but if you're going for a strong military campaign, getting Ziema set up as a competent general might be worth the investment. I'll play around with it and get back to you guys. Thanks again!
Thank you for this guide, Avilyss! Very well laid out. I personally suck at the Forgotten but I do enjoy the research buyout mechanic. I'll be trying your suggestions and hope I don't get roflgibbed as quickly. :P
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Thank you for this post, it seems to give me a good base to win as the forgotten. I have another question though, if i steal a research, does that make the next research i buy more expensive as well?
Cabz wrote: Thank you for this post, it seems to give me a good base to win as the forgotten. I have another question though, if i steal a research, does that make the next research i buy more expensive as well?
Yes. The cost of research is determined by the number of researches you currently have and which era they're in, it doesn't matter how you acquired them. The exception is any "bonus" researches you've obtained through quests.
Xenophon wrote: A great guide - thank you so much!
Now do the same for all the other factions!
I appreciate the feedback! However, I am by no means an expert player and I am quite certain there are players here with more experience (both with the game itself and with the other factions) whom could put together a much better guide than myself. I am working on a "general tips" guide that I may or may not publish and I'll happily put up some thoughts on other factions as I spend more time playing them. I mostly put this guide up because so many people seem to be struggling with this faction and it's my favorite faction, so I was hoping I could help even a little bit.
Excellent read. I'd be curious to see others come forward and give us guides on their favorite factions, that'd be invaluable for newbies and people willing to switch factions and try something new.
Frogsquadron wrote: Thorough, in-depth guide to the faction.
Excellent read. I'd be curious to see others come forward and give us guides on their favorite factions, that'd be invaluable for newbies and people willing to switch factions and try something new.
As an eternal newb myself, I'd totally agree!
I know that guides for other factions exist on this forum, but not on this level of detail or comprehensiveness - that's what makes this guide stand out so much.
Pretty much self explanatory. Not only does this severely hamper the Roving Clans' victory progress but it substantially boosts your ability to make bank and have a Dust storage.
I've never seen this option before in the infiltration options. Does it only appear when infiltrating the Roving Clans or is it hidden somewhere?
lilyophelia wrote: I've never seen this option before in the infiltration options. Does it only appear when infiltrating the Roving Clans or is it hidden somewhere?
I think this option is out-of-date.
"Leech Trade Routes" exists in old screen shot, but now it looks like replaced to "Decrease Industry".
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Shadow Lord
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -H. L. Mencken
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/icarus86
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"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain
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Legendary Emperor
Hesitation is defeat.
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Legendary Emperor
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"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain
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Fanatic Enthusiast
Gloria Dei homo vivens!
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Fanatic Enthusiast
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Broken
Frogsquadron / François (\franswa\) "I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas."
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Broken
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Shadow Lord
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -H. L. Mencken
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Old Officer
Yeah, that one
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Shadow Lord
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -H. L. Mencken
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