here are my 2 cents...



i feel all the combat look like the same... a group of ship is going from East to West, ennemy arrive via space jump, just little behind, but same direction to have the more firepower to give and that's it... it's kinda boring, even if the scenary change.....



i would be the capitain of my fleet, i would try to maneuver and try to make a T with ennemy



( for french people, here a link in wikipedia talking about this naval strategy ) http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrer_le_T





i would like to offer the maximum firepower for my ships and the minimun for ennemies....





anyways, if maneuvers cannot be added because not planned or too much work to be done, we could at least have random position at start of a fight... sometimes we could go in the same direction, sometime perpendiculary, or sometime in opposite, meeting or going away... this could change the dammage for the both foes depend of the direction of the differents ships...



what do you think ?





Neuneu



http://www.neuneu.fr

Nosferatiel wrote:
The complexity of the system has to be cranked up a few notches, there have to be more animations and you actually have to see the ships firing from weapons or weapon slots and not straight out of the hull.

I agree, some of the ships look as though theyre firing through solid metal and this can kind of take you out of the immersion of battle. That and the ability to choose between a cinematic view or custom would be my changes.

I have to say I had great fun playing my first session of Endless Space - it boggled my mind how well it plays for only being in alpha state! But the one thing that killed the experience for me was the combat system. It is the Achilles heel right now.



I'm trying to think of some constructive criticism about it to specify what my problems are with it but I am having a difficult time.



I guess right off the bat the automatic camera angles are just confusing and unhelpful.



I also do not like how each combat phase is basically a mini cinematic where your card choice is your only input to the ordeal. I want to be able to focus fire on particular ships in certain priority, for example! Or I want to try to use my speed to evade the enemy while I lob long range missiles.



The card system seems innovative but it just doesn't cut it for me. It feels too random like I am just rolling the dice.



Perhaps also not all cards should be available just because you have the tech for it. I think some cards should depend on conditions like for example over driving deflectors (I think that's what the card text was) shouldn't be available if none of the ships in your fleet are equipped with deflectors!



Also maybe make it so if you play one card first phase you cant play it again next phase, if anything then to just mix things up so its more thought provoking and also it allows you to make better judgement on what the other guy might pick once his options start to dwindle.



I like to pick manual combat so that I can pick what cards to use but I don't like that then have to sit there and spend a couple minutes watching the same outcomes, over and over again. MY war was really becoming tedious because of this. If there is no more user-input going to be including to combat then maybe instead of just blank auto resolution we could have a compromise where it is resolved quickly but with the cards we choose in advance (maybe even load from a default card picking list)

Nosferatiel wrote:
The complexity of the system has to be cranked up a few notches, there have to be more animations and you actually have to see the ships firing from weapons or weapon slots and not straight out of the hull.



So with a few additions, this is in my opinion a very nice and even now addicting combat system.

Glad somebody else said it. I would like to see some more cutscenes as well. I am intrigued by the current system but I would like to see some more fighting phases (4-5) and some manuvering options. like closing on the enemy, keeping the enemy in long weapons range, and keeping distance at a set range (close medium far) You would need tacitical engines (more movement in combat or less) and I would like to see countermeasures like ice crystals (laser countermeasure) countermissiles, countermissile laser batteries, and various jammers and spoofing devices (things that trick missiles into going after non-existant targets or trick flack guns into aiming at ghosts)

yeah +1 for this. Hope this isn't the final intended version of combat

Like others have said i like the idea of the system but feel it could be more in depth. the idea of being able to set a formation for your fleet appeals to me in particular.

I would like some alterations, but mostly I want the battle to last longer, it's over so fast.

I think it would be really interesting if we had more interaction during the fight.



What I would really like to see is a list of all enemy ships where your ships will target the topmost ship.

The order of the list you can re-order by dragging the ship around.

Like on the pre-battle box, if you mouse over them you see what stuff they have fitted.



Add in some need of different ships in your fleet and it would become REALLY interesting.





The poster above me made me think.. maybe make the length variable. some battle are over too soon, others take too long... not sure how to fix.

My issue with the battle system is the head in nature of each battle, its not really realistic in a strategic sense. The problem leads itself to the same "cinematic" problem because the ships basically maneuver the same way each time. To be honest I'm not sure what I would suggest to visually change it up as the battles follow the same formula - I suppose an extra layer of maneuvers could be added to the melee - adding more depth to the combat at that layer...?

I want unique super-heavy dreadnaught and battleship only weapons of each type.



Here's my idea:

Heavy beam lasers

Relativistic mass drivers

Missiles with a gigantic explosion area that whites out the screen



*and if possible: battleship/dreadnaught launched fighter wings



Here's what combat should look like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hp5FCqRORk

I like the combat system, but i'd like more tactic flexibility in cards. The cards should be expendable, to force difficult dicisions like, should i play now or reserve it to another battle? There should exist specific cards for each race and maybe some cards with tatical manouvers (spearhead, flank attack, etc.).

Hmmm... like add several tactics cards. Might help balance the weapons out a bit.



Here's a few ideas:



"Knife fight" - By sacrificing weapons power, your ships are able to close to short range within a single round. The next phase automatically becomes a short range phase (you get two short range phases if its your first card), but you take a -50% weapons penalty until next phase.



"Stand off" - Through clever maneuvering you are able to keep the enemy at range. The next phase becomes a long range phase. Unfortunately, your ships have little in the way of rear facing flak, so you take -50% to antimissiles.



Both cards counter each other.

I'm also of the opinion that the combat system has potential but needs some more work.

I like the combat system, it is certainly a unique approach, and one that makes sense based on the rest of the game play.



I would make minor alterations, such as a bit more control on formations and ship movement, however, I am sure these things will have already been thought of and possibly be integrated before too long.

Depends what you mean by 'combat system'.



I quite like the phases/cards automatic system (more varied graphics would be a 'nice to have'), but fleet interception mechanics are a pain (to be fixed, I know), I find simultaneous moves really annoying, and I don't much like the rock-paper-scissors approach to weapons/defences.

i like it a lot as it is, i love how short the battles are, (fun to watch but they don't suck up all my play time which i want to spend on the map)

some more innovative battle cards would be wonderful, (more drastic effects) but not more in general (late game that card screen gets very full) many cards seem to purely supplant each-other/fill the same roles. others don't give big enough bonuses to warrant use.



i would like to see a version of combat that didn't involve one fleet chasing another with standard long, medium, short phases. perhaps a cinematic where the two fleets charge at one another and the phases are different (medium, short, long). perhaps a fleet that is much faster than another jumps into a system very close to its opponent when on offence, beginning in short range. some variation like that would make card choices dynamic. (starting the battle at close range might mean finding a way to keep your missile heavy fleet alive till the long range phase, when otherwise you might focus on dust warhead cards). even the exact same system with some purely cosmetic differences would be nice fleets going head on, in asteroids, around a ringed system, in nebula.



i don't mind the guns firing from the hull, makes me think of star-destroyers in star-wars, (many small canons all over the ships) gives me a sense of the hugeness of the space ships which is wonderful. none of the ships feel like fighters which is a nice change.



i would like more racial combat options/cards. Emipre-- strong defensive cards. sophons-- repair cards. etc



but as i said i like the system.--- makes for awesome tension in close battles. fingers crossed staring at my ships hoping none explode and hoping the AI's next card doesn't counter my much needed repair card.

I like the card system in combat but I still think you should be able to designate targets...

I'd like the battles to be a tad bit slower as well, after all you're in space things wouldn't move as fast...

Definitely more epic explosions and probably epic maneuvers during combat? smaller faster vessels outflanking and crippling larger more cumbersome vessels?



As above post said, shuffle up the combat phases. Or choose which phases you want the most to compliment your fleets combat style eg, mid-range phase, short-range phase then go out again to mid and completely drop long-range because your fleet doesn't support any missiles. or have a completely long-range battle... definitely the epic head-on combats though, that sounds absolutely awesome.

I agree with some here who say that the card system is basically okay if that is what is in the final game, but that the ability to designate targets would give the combat sequences a lot more depth.



Additional cut scenes of the two fleets entering the combat zone would be great (time permitting of course).



A crucial small tweak that I think others have pointed out as well would be the removal or change of some of the very, very close camera angles which restrict the players' view of what is happening (some of the camera angles are especially annoying right at the end of the long-range phase for whatever reason). Not to say that close up shots are bad, but there are some awkward camera angles.

I would say adding some more cards would be nice, as well as ability (through tech) to give odds on what the enemy will do (obviously not in multiple player). Also, some targeting/position consideration would be cool

I agree with many of the suggestions here. Need some more cards, some different formation optics, possibly able to prioritize targets (say focus firepower on missile carrying craft if you are caught with no flak). Also someone talked about ambient chatter, death screams etc in a previous thread.



One graphical thing I would like to see is the destruction of the ships. Bit too jarring to see them just blow up into nothing. Would like to see them break up or blow up into big chunks as the hull falls apart. Right now they are vaporized.