Most definitely. Some form of retreat is absolutely necessary. Especially in the early game where you might send your scout into uncharted waters, and if you encounter something like pirates or another race that doesn't enjoy you orbiting their system for some reason you'll want to bolt out of there as fast as possible. It may not seem huge, but losing your initial scout before you have much of a chance to scout a fair number of systems can be a big blow at that point in the game for potential expansion and establishing relations/borders with other races. And early in the game attempting to rebuild a scout can be very costly in terms of production time lost. Also having that ship available to become retrofitted with new equipment can give you a slight edge in your first battle fleet.

I like a retreat option or card, but it would be hard to implement. I think for one, it should only be available in the first battle round. It should probably be countered by either and offensive movement, or perhaps another new card that specifically prevents the ships from retreating ("flank" or something of the sort). If they successfully retreat, it should take the whole first round to do so, and the attacking ship fires normally on the retreating ship, but no fire is returned.



Perhaps retreating, however, is less the problem. The problem is there is no line of sight. The ships should have sensors that could detect ship signs a ways off, at least 2x their normal move. There is nothing worse that sending a colony ship to a system to find out last second it's holding pirates. This would fix the problem, as a successful admiral would retreat before battle is met if he sees a force 3x the size of his own.

Well, you could use scout ships, with the latter gear they get quite the range

I think that problem should be solved by doing it with the scissor stone principle. When the enemy uses tactics none of your ships will flee. If he chooses engineering every ship of youre fleet will flee. And if the enemy uses something else just one ship will flee this turn(long, medium, melee..).

A retreat card could come handy in a dire spot (even as a costly hero-card, some of those high-level heroes are nasty to lose). There'd have to be a counter card for it, a counter probably shouldn't be a hero-card.

The way retreat should work (in my opinion, atleast), is giving the fleet some damage (25-75% randomly or depending on the combat phase (25% for long range, 50% for short range, 75% for melee)) and removing the fleet from combat until the next turn. Also, the fleet shouldn't be able to attack in the next 2 turns.

Hey guys,

We have retreat card and and "offensive" retreat card but we had to remove from alpha as the ai liked them a bit too much, way too often... Coward!

It will be back as soon as we solve that issue.

ST

Thank you <3

That's great news

sorry my mistake i only tried to give a +1 to this threat and missed the answer from the devs above.

I would just like a FLEEEE! button for when a colony ship is surprised by a pirate fleet that wasn't there a few turns ago.

Such a card would dictate the entirety of mp battles. However some retreat mechanic must exist since it is referred to by the birdy race.

not if you cant retreat only but giving the other side some advantages... maybe you can try to retreat but the other side can shoot one round and you cant dodge it, or maybe you have to leave one from your ships behind to cover the retreat...

SpaceTroll wrote:
Hey guys,

We have retreat card and and "offensive" retreat card but we had to remove from alpha as the ai liked them a bit too much, way too often... Coward!

It will be back as soon as we solve that issue.

ST

Great news But, I still hold on to my previous points about the card costs/malus.

I defiantly think there needs to be some kind of retreat option I haven’t played that long but it is irritating that I can’t send a ship into a system and retreat either before or during combat. A retreat card would be a good option; however it would need to be deployed with care. Such that the AI and the player cannot simply retreat at will. Clearly then I agree that there would have to be some kind of counter or penalty to the retreat, perhaps damage? Hero de-levels/penalties? Fleet attack penalties for so many goes after?



Sounds awsome and i agree with the post about the extra option cards with special plays like kamikaze runs etc

Stargem wrote:
I would like it if we had a couple dozen different kinds of Retreat Cards.



Final Push: The entirety of the user's remaining fleet makes one more attack phase, the type of which is the player's choosing. This final action comes last, so that the user's fleet has already taken significant damage.



Kamikaze: All ships are sacrificed in an attempt to destroy the enemy. This causes three phases to be created, two of which belongs to the user, and one for the enemy. The user chooses whether their attacks are Long, Medium, or Short range, picking two of these. The enemy uses the remaining slot for their counterattack, which takes place according to what phases the user has choosen.



Bargaining Chip: Holding someone or something that the enemy holds dear, the fleet can be allowed to withdraw without being harmed. Unfortunately, these circumstances are not likely to be always available, so make it count.



Unconditional Surrender: All ships in the fleet is given up to the enemy. The option to buy back the ships and their personal is offered, though the enemy may refuse this offer if they wish.



On this day...: May be played to stir emotion in the user's populance and the enemie's, by playing on the tragedy that resulted from the enemy's attack. When this card is played, the likelyhood of the user's ships being destroyed during retreat increases, but the emotional sway is also increased proportionately.



Turn The Tables: With this card, the user can move another fleet in the system or in an neighboring system into this battle. The battle resumes again, but with these additional forces to assist.

Only 2 of those options would really be "retreat" cards.

I think that in the case of an Salvaged Ship event, the odds should be increased if there is an terrain card that involves an battlefield full of wreckage. Example:

Recent Battlefield: An fleet of ships was destroyed at this location, and their remains are available for salvaging. Also ideal for guerilla warfare, due to the large number of electronic signatures that can mask the presence of ships. These battlefields eventually disappear, due to the wreckage drifting apart.



+Fair odds of Salvage & tech acquisition

+Fair likelihood of Field Repairs being available

+Improved guerilla warfare

-Debris makes it much harder to use fighters, and reduces weapon accuracy due to obstructions.

-Makes sensors less reliable, due to "active" wreckage and visual blockage.

=Turns into an Abandoned Battlefield after 5 turns.

Abandoned Battlefield: A great deal of time has passed since battle last occured here. Most of the debris has wandered away, but there is still a few select hulks present.



+Low odds of salvage & tech acquisition

+Low odds of Field Repair being available.

-Small decrease in sensor abilities

=Disappers after 10 turns.

Event Card - Salvaged Ship: Your engineers were able to find a ship that would be relatively easy to repair, and have made it battleworthy again. If this card is played in conjunction with an Recent Battlefield or Abandoned Battlefield terrain card, the effect is strengthened.

Event Card - Field Repairs: There is enough time and resources on hand that your engineers can patch up your ships. If this card is played in conjunction with an Recent Battlefield or Abandoned Battlefield terrain card, the effect is strengthened.

Short Phase - Tractor Beam: This ship is equipped with an device that "grabs" onto objects, preventing them from moving effectively. This also prevents them from using warp engines to escape the battlefield, as they otherwise would be torn to pieces.

Long Phase - Interdiction Field: This ship is equipped to generate an energy wave that disrupts warp engines and causes wormholes to be unreliable while active. This consumes an great deal of power, but prevents enemy opposition from escaping.

My philosophy when it comes to card design is to first imagine an hypothetical situation, then assign mechanics to it that makes sense to me. For example, Turn the Tables represents an false retreat that results in a trap being sprung on the enemy. Final Push and Kamikaze are those cards that while they run counter to performing an retreat, are also the exact sort of thing that makes it impossible to retreat once the forces involved become committed to destroying the enemy, no matter the cost. The most important thing to my mind is to actually make the effect of each card substantial and capable of changing the outcome of an battle. Sure, the quality of equipment and training is one of the most defining elements of modern warfare, but the thing that people pay the most attention to is the stories that are told of men fighting against impossible odds, the tragedies that befall heroes, and other tales. To me, cards are to make the game have an story-telling mechanism, and to provide varied gameplay.

A retreating fleet is nothing else than a fleet using defensive cards in all three phases. There could be something like a researchable all out defense card however that gives a fleet +50% defense and -75% firepower.

I have to agree with this, if I'm scouting around in my scout ship, I should have the ability to retreat from a fight. Obviously to make it even there should be ways to stop the retreat, chances that my retreat fails, chance and dmg taken takes into account speed and size of the ship, etc. There just should be some way for a ship to attempt to retreat from a battle not just be forced into it and destroyed if they stumble into the wrong system.

As I see it there is now way to surprise an enemy in space. So a battle means that both opponents WANT to fight or one is driven so stay because he protects something of value in that system. The idea that two tiny ships both in a huge solar system have to fight to minute they are in the same system is ridiculous.

I can understand the devs side because a constantly fleeing enemy will ruin the game in no time, but there should be ways around it.

Let's look at the Total War games for help here. You can always retreat (as long as you have movement points left) unless you are surprised. Surprise in ES could work via a cloaking technology making it possible to sneak up on people or by interdictor-like ship types keeping other ships in system.



But the way the system is handled now is very unsatisfactory.