At the middle of a game, ther are a lot of ships....

I don't understand why some of these items are listed as potential content for an expansion pack. Much of what you've listed is things you've more or less promised to add as free updates later.



- carriers/fighters/interceptors

- espionage

- razing planets (this one has even appeared in g2g votes - g2g votes clearly stating that 'if it doesn't win the vote now it will be implemented later')



I sincerely hope I'm misunderstanding something.

you are not and are correct for the most part.



Large entirely new things will be in the pack but all of the little things will most likely be in the original.

What is your source for that statement, Ign? I haven't been through this nine-page thread so if you have, please link away.

These are things I have seen posted by the Devs before but where they are I don't remember.



So you are indeed correct to question the credibility of my statement.

- Finding artifacts on moons or planets could be equipped on ships or heroes

- Ground Battles to accelerate the sieging if the invasion is successful. It would then be visual, on the planet ground.

- Planet defenses that damages sieging fleets

These three points are great. Maybe it would be nice to introduce some kind of artefact search mini-game.



- Construction queue sorting options

It is one of the most important things to introduce in the original. Firstly, there should be options of delaying production-research/production-dust convertion in case there are constructions/ships in queue. Secondly, autoconstruction customization is absolutely necessary. First of all, I mean possibilities to exclude a number of constructions from the autoconstruction list.



- Destroying entire star systems (will disappear after being destroyed)

This innovation will have the most serious impact on balance, so it is essential to introduce it carefully. For instance, it would be good to consider giving the Pilgrim migration ability to the other factions.



- Options to make planets more unique by building special unique buildings. special building appear on planets / system.

If you mean something like "wonders", I have a bad feeling that ES will resemble to the Civilizations at greater scale. It would be preferable to seek means to improve gameplay in ES in its own original way.

Igncom1 wrote:
credibility of my statement.

Yes, well, this thread does seem to raise some concerns about credibility. But I see Nats has that covered on page two so I guess my input is redundant.

One improvement regarding battle cards. This could even be patch material.



Usually what players first see it the icon of the card and the effect. The name of the card is of the lower importance.



And when player looks at the card, he thinks either: "I wanna use this", or "I wanna block this".

Use is easy and straightforward.



But when player looks at the card and things it would be good idea to block it, it takes a lot of time to reference card name, and then look at each of other cards and match referenced name with their block value



What I would suggest it to list for each card what other card would block that card, not which other card selected card blocks. And even better, have that info in icon form, instead of the text. That way, you can at glance see what other card would block some card. It would speed up decision process, which is very important, since battles are very fast.

I'm very conflicted about an expansion pack coming out around the end of the year. I understand that the developers need to make money to keep the company afloat, but there are significant issues:



1. It doubles the balancing workload. Making an expansion doesn't (or at least, shouldn't) stop the balance work on the base game. This means the developers will need to balance two different versions of the same game, as new features will inevitably alter the vanilla game's balance. So either more staff will need to be hired, the balancing work on the base game needs to slow down (or stop completely), or the developers will need to work in a frenzy to fix the various issues before the work on the expansion ramps up (which is extremely unlikely, considering the pace of previous patches and the size of the team).



2. It increases the barrier to entry. Putting out an expansion means existing fans will likely pay the developer more money for it. However, it also means more people will be reluctant to pick up the base game, since they will view the expansion as necessary for full enjoyment while not wanting to spend around $100 all at once. This is why expansions are usually put out a year or two after a game releases, since new sales will be almost non-existent by that time. It is completely possible that an expansion will lose the company more potential money than it will generate.



3. Some of the ideas could be done with mods. This is a conundrum I've encountered in most games which allow heavy modding. If the modders can (and will) give it away for free, the quality of expansions/dlc must be incredible. A few new gameplay features won't cut it. The work also needs to be hard or impossible to replicate in mods. That is extremely hard to do, and so far the possible features listed don't look set to tackle that.



4. Many smaller features should instead be added to the base game. On a mechanical level, the current game works pretty well. But it isn't exactly feature heavy. And there are still some very rough areas (looking at you, planet invasion). As well, many customers bought the game in the beta stage, likely assuming continuous and long-lasting support from the developer. If smaller features which could easily be added to the base game are instead saved for the expansion, many players are likely to get upset. This would be a PR nightmare, especially since indie games are much more dependent on word of mouth. To avoid this, the smaller features (or ones which fit heavily into existing gameplay systems) should be included in patches instead.



With all of this in mind, I would recommend holding off on the expansion. (And yes, I'm aware that this is merely an exploratory phase.) Counter-thoughts are welcome.

A little late in the game, as I have been pushing for Razing for a while, but question on semantics of the "Raze Systems" idea that we are voting on, and it has to do with another possible expansion idea. When we say "raze system", we do simply mean destroy colonies and leave the system right? Or do we mean destroy system, as is listed here, because I hope they are two separate things. Along the same line, I think if something is created that can destroy planets/Stars, then something should counter this that can build planets/stars. In my mind I picture a faction with an affinity that allows them to "destroy" planets and stars, and use the energy/materials left over to create stars and planets or expand current planets sizes with materials. Some hidden numbers, and a conversion factor (2 stars destroyed makes 1 star, 2 planets destroy make one tiny barren planet, 3 for small, etc.) and a way for the faction to navigate to a specific place in free space/string to create the system.

Ganpot wrote:
I'm very conflicted about an expansion pack coming out around the end of the year.

Its not coming till 2013.

The idea of blowing up entire systems is of interest to me. It reminds me of Sins of a Solar Empire Rebellion with it's Vasari Strip the Core, which turned any planet into an asteroid. You can obviously read up the mechanics, but one thing that should be noted form a grand scale was that it was a game ending move. As the game progressed, more and more planets were annihilated, eventually leaving only a few good planets remaining. While just conquering a planet allows a player to take it back, annihilating prevents that. It is a one way ticket, and on a grand scale of slowly ends the game as fewer and fewer planets are left.



As such, I envision "Razing" a system as the annihilation of all planets, either wholly or downgrade to lesser quality asteroid belts. In order to do such however, you would have to research a late-game technology and have access to several strategic resources to trigger a system raze. It would basically act as a game ender, slowly chipping off decent planets from the galaxy. In order to incentive this, offer a massive dust bonus upon successful planet raze.

My personal wish is that in the expansion pack improve the atmosphere and lore of the game which is a bit lacking now.



This can be done in different ways:

-add further mechanics to races gameplay to further differentiate them

-more race technology and improvements

-further improve the background of races, planets

-increase planet types

-more events and decisions

-planetary specific resources and anomalies

I would like to see ALL OF THE THINGS MENTIONED IN THE OP, thank you. And I really don't like the sound of that "I doubt we can go there...", because really, right now, the weapons are literally firing out of the ship, without any visible cannons or anything. It's like firing a bullet out of a brick.

I'm happy for the planned innovations. Certainly will contribute to make the game more fun and interesting.

But I would like to propose the possibility to manually control the conduct of battles between spaceships.

(choose between some tactical options in three shifts) does not make me too sensitive to the fate of the crew of my spaceships



Maybe you could leave the two resolutions existing, in addition to a full manual control.



I would also like if it were possible to see on the 3d models of ships representations (animated would be perfect)

of the various weapons and equipment installed. In order to have a quick visual feedback about what lines up.

If there will be more focus on battles, then I think there will need to be some visual changes to the battle view to facilitate decision making.



I agree with DoGy that ships will need more visual differentiation. A way to differentiate between two same-faction players is a must. Additionally, I think there needs to be improved differentiation between individual ships in battle. For example, there would be no sense playing a +kinetics card if my kinetic-stacked ships were destroyed in the first phase. I'd suggest tagging ships with their name and class. But you might also be able to achieve this in an aesthetically pleasing way by allowing ship designs to choose a secondary colour. Let's say all my beam stacked ships will be highlighted in red (either with a paint job variation, or a red 'aura' around the model).

I'd say a unified MP lobby is currently the thing i would like to see the most.

A post in french was moved to the right place :

/#/endless-space/forum/42-русскии/thread/16808-idees-pour-l-expansion-packs



A reminder of the forum rule : you only speak english in the non-international forums.

the expansion pack looks nice, i hope it will be balanced good before they sell it.

I think it's time to put this thread back to topic...



I will not discuss the question of if it should be in patch or in payed expansion pack but I would like to see these included in one or other way.



- New heroes:



Diplomat - he would be the one playing with influence, trade, espionage and sabotage.

Scientist - you get the point ... he would bee the one who would invent things a lot faster and would come with special techs.



- New ship designs:



Design for Diplomats - This is the ship you want to make first contact/diplomacy in. It will boost your chances, add new things and allow your diplomat to go freely on diplomatic missions.

Researsh ship - special design for Scientist, he would be able to auto explore galaxy and search for anomalies.

Capital ship - just one per race

Death star - :]



- New races/factions:



Granites - Lithovore ... completely new game mechanic, do not need food so there must be something else to compensate.

Morlons - Telepathic ... again completely new mechanic, taking over systems and diplomatic relationship would be different.

non-playable - Furlies ... small teddy bears with undergroud cities :]



- New planet types:



Artificial planets - You are so good that you can now build your own planets.

Cracked planets - No atmosphere or very limited one. Easy access to the resources.

Comets - Exploitable resource or scientific breakthrough.



New system types:



Black hole system - Scientific and afterwards production resource. Possible new ending type (way how to get ultimate weapon).

Nebula system - Special ship travel conditions, huge resources, limited or no planets, space stations needed.





The rest was mentioned in the OP.



I would like to see your comments, I love this game (althoug it has a long way to go to compete with MOO 2) and I would like to see this game improved beyond my imaginations



Edit:



I forgot one thing and that is that the game actualy lacks atmosphere or depth. It feels too sterile and disatached to actual game events. I do not feel for my people and I do not fear my enemies.

One thing is great and that is music and starting animations for all the races but then its all but text, numbers and tables. Major events are presented with text only, scientific discoveries are just icons... there is no story behind them, no images, no animations. There is no indication in which cultural and technology states are the planets, we see "something" but we cannot look close enough The heroes ... well their are icons only too.



Please make me "feel" the game, I know we have our own imagination but you have such a great artist then don't be afraid to use them!