Hey all. I'm new to these forums and to Endless Space in general so apologies if this has been discussed.



This mechanic seems broken to me. I like the fleet based combat system but the ability to delay invasion with huge numbers of throwaway fleets doesn't feel right. If those fleets don't pose any real threat to the attacking fleet then it doesn't make sense for them to be able to prevent an invasion. It's also not fun. What do you guys think?



I have limited experience with this game but two ideas I had to fix that would be:



1. Limit the number of fleets (or CP worth of fleets), per faction, which can be in orbit around a system. Additional fleets above this limit would only be able to pass through the system (assuming it wasn't blockaded).



or



2. Defending fleets would only be able to prevent the initiation of ground invasion. Siege invasion could begin immediately, or perhaps after the attacker defeats the first defending fleet.



Thoughts?

To be honest it is just a tactic the AI use and unlikely to be changed, I suggest you try multiplayer if this bothers you. Also, have you tried going to a different system? The AI usually only concentrate on defending a few systems at a time. On the other hand you can also split your fleets up and use much smaller fleets to clean up the AI's.

Thanks for the response.

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
To be honest it is just a tactic the AI use and unlikely to be changed

Does it not work very well in multiplayer for some reason? Can you explain? Or do players simply not do it because it isn't fun?



Saying that it's not likely to be changed because only the AI does it is a very unsatisfying response. You underestimate the popularity of single player. The vast majority of players will only be playing this game in single player. If the designers are only focused on issues that affect multiplayer then they are making a serious mistake.

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
have you tried going to a different system? The AI usually only concentrate on defending a few systems at a time.

Sure, that's what we have to do, but that solution exploits the poor AI instead of fixing the design flaw.

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
On the other hand you can also split your fleets up and use much smaller fleets to clean up the AI's.

This is not a good solution as it breaks the big vs small fleet size tradeoff. One of the key strategic decisions available in this type of game is the choice between building a small number of large powerful fleets, or a large number of smaller cheaper fleets. Maybe on Endless difficulty or at the top of the multiplayer ladder it's been determined that only one of those choices is viable, but down with the rest of the peasants the design goal should be to allow me to choose one or the other based on my preference and still have a chance to be successful.

For the first one i meant it is unlikely to be changed because this game is 2 years old. And it is indeed a viable tactic and you will have to kill all the other fleets, if you do not one to split your fleet up try moving more fleets in. Think of those AI as guerrilla fighters, hard to root out and requiring large numbers to exterminate, and as for not being able to invade, in real life you would never be able to attack say a city with an army if you had a ton of enemy troops flanking you.

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
For the first one i meant it is unlikely to be changed because this game is 2 years old.

Ah, Ok. Even so, it's still a valid topic for a discussion of game design. Will there never be an Endless Space 2?

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
as for not being able to invade, in real life you would never be able to attack say a city with an army if you had a ton of enemy troops flanking you.

That's a poor analogy. My attacking force would engage the entire enemy force in a single battle. I wouldn't attack one guy at a time taking a break in between each to allow them to re-enforce. The game has a fleet mechanic for good reasons but in "real life" 30 ships defending a system wouldn't be considered by the attacker to be separate fleets that he could only attack one at a time simply because the defender has arbitrarily defined them as such. But I digress, these types of analogies are a poor rationale in general for space sim design choices. What is important is a design which makes the game fun, strategic, and balanced.

I actually like the idea of the limitation of the amount of units.. As sometimes it can be frustrating when units are spammed out

In real life though the enemy could just hide and scatter when you try to fight them, and then when you try to do anything hostile against the system attack en masse.

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
when you try to do anything hostile against the system attack en masse.

Exactly. One single battle where the defender fights 'en masse' in response to an attempted invasion. Glad to see you've decided to agree with me. I'd be nice if Endless Space worked this way.