No sir I disagree. This, as quoted, is plainly useless criticism, of which my comment was merely a reflection.

Fabs wrote:
These unbalanced mobs are the proof the devs have no idea what they are doing at the time - they are just punching numbers randomly at each patch.

Further, your post, in contrast to those who replied before you, does nothing to suggest a useful tactic or strategy to new players looking for help. As stated, it serves only to disparage and to damage confidence at an early stage in a team which has thus far made a rather impressive offering.



Did I say it was perfect?



(FYI - there is no version 1.0 as of yet)

As Slowbrah mentioned above, it's indeed an issue we will address in a next update (I will put a random number somewhere in the XML, hope it will work! ^^).

As for your comments, we do appreciate them and they are precious for us. However, arguing / being negative / insulting us or each other isn't helping, so please refer to the forum rules, and try to stay polite: we all have feelings

Fabs wrote:
Yeah, lets chill out. ^^

Chill dude, chill. Cut me some slack bro.



Pfft.



All I'm saying is watch your mouth. While I do admit I used sexist and vulgar language to get my point across, for which I apologize, it served a purpose. Don't ask others to respect you while you directly disrespect and erode the foundations of the community you are acting in. You will not receive respect unless you treat others with it as well.



Crystal ships be damned.

melkathi wrote:
*pokes head in* Oh, they are still going at it.



*pokes head back in* forgot to say the required: In before lock.



*pokes head back in one last time* Let me be constructive: I know I am not a moderator but people: get back on topic! Right now none of you are helping anyone.

Yeah, lets chill out. ^^

melkathi wrote:
*pokes head in* Oh, they are still going at it.



*pokes head back in* forgot to say the required: In before lock.



*pokes head back in one last time* Let me be constructive: I know I am not a moderator but people: get back on topic! Right now none of you are helping anyone.

Tru Dat, enough with this

*pokes head in* Oh, they are still going at it.



*pokes head back in* forgot to say the required: In before lock.



*pokes head back in one last time* Let me be constructive: I know I am not a moderator but people: get back on topic! Right now none of you are helping anyone.

Stating that the devs have no clue of what they are doing is just plain disrespectful, mate.



I can certainly see that you like the core of the game and want to see it improved, and I respect that.



You may not care about the community. But that's what it is. A community. And for this community to grow and be healthy, it is very important for us to respect each other. If someone says something which offends someone else in the community, they may receive feedback on that, and can certainly reply. But if this 'do not care' attitude goes unchecked, it could be very damaging to the community. It could become a 'toxic' behavior and deteriorate the community. This kind of community meltdown has happened in other games.



I am just asking to tone down the way you word part of your opinions a little bit. Your posts can become more interesting to read, and convey your ideas much better. Just lashing out with incompetence accusation does not create a listening crowd, it alienates people. When several minds work together they can reach farther. Your opinions can be worded in a bold way, without stepping on other people's toes. You will see that you will have much better results if you try.



As for killing the module crystals, ehrm, Tesla modules target them I suppose. Then there are also the area-damage ones.



But in this game iteration, it seems to lean a bit heavily on the hero defense part, having just a tower defense playstyle is not really easy in the current balance, and may very well be impossible.

Zigeye wrote:
I referred Fabs to the definition of "Balance" here a little while ago. If he chooses not to understand/read this, it's actually okay, because understanding game development isn't a necessity to understand what makes a game good, and I still value his opinion for making this game better. I personally think the Dev team is doing a good job making a fun game that's pretty unique in a lot of ways. In a world full of cookie-cutter FPS shooters and J-RPGs I appreciate their efforts to bring us something new and I'm enjoying helping them along the way.



To Fabs: Your biggest problem isn't your poor understanding of how games are developed, it's that you make your suggestions in an extremely negative and blaming manor that no one enjoys reading. Please have strong opinions, please make good suggestions, & please tell the devs what doesn't work. Just do it in a way that makes us all want to agree with you and listen to what you have to say. You'll find that people around here want the same as you, an interesting, well-balanced, & challenging game that we can all enjoy come launch.



What's this topic about again? Oh yeah! Flying Crystal ships. Those things are rough to deal with and junk

Zig, I understand how games are devenloped, despite i'm not a devenloper myself. And even if I didn't, I'm here in the condition of player of the game - or some kind of beta-tester. I do complain of things I think that hurt the gameplay in general, and even suggested changes in the same topic you linked.



But- man - I'm not here to cheer people up, specially other members who feel hurt because I'm blunt on things I say to the devs. I don't offend people, I don't expect people agreeing with me, and if anyone agrees with me, should be because what I say makes sense despite the way I say - reason and logic - not because I'm a shiny happy member that speak with flowering words and expect people to support me.



Support me because you agree on what I say, not because of me. Also, disagree for what I say, not because its ME saying - that includes the WAY I say.

TacticalPteridactyl wrote:
No sir I disagree. This, as quoted, is plainly useless criticism, of which my comment was merely a reflection.



Further, your post, in contrast to those who replied before you, does nothing to suggest a useful tactic or strategy to new players looking for help. As stated, it serves only to disparage and to damage confidence at an early stage in a team which has thus far made a rather impressive offering.



Did I say it was perfect?

You read what I wrote? If "have some tankish heroes in the frontline and food to keep healing them", its not a suggestion of tactics, I don't know what it is. It's blunt and sarcastic, but its tactics.



'Damage confidence'? 'Offering'? These are adult people, man - not high schoolers that need a rub in the back before going to the sand tank.

TacticalPteridactyl wrote:




(FYI - there is no version 1.0 as of yet)

I meant 0.1.0.

I referred Fabs to the definition of "Balance" here a little while ago. If he chooses not to understand/read this, it's actually okay, because understanding game development isn't a necessity to understand what makes a game good, and I still value his opinion for making this game better. I personally think the Dev team is doing a good job making a fun game that's pretty unique in a lot of ways. In a world full of cookie-cutter FPS shooters and J-RPGs I appreciate their efforts to bring us something new and I'm enjoying helping them along the way.



To Fabs: Your biggest problem isn't your poor understanding of how games are developed, it's that you make your suggestions in an extremely negative and blaming manor that no one enjoys reading. Please have strong opinions, please make good suggestions, & please tell the devs what doesn't work. Just do it in a way that makes us all want to agree with you and listen to what you have to say. You'll find that people around here want the same as you, an interesting, well-balanced, & challenging game that we can all enjoy come launch.



What's this topic about again? Oh yeah! Flying Crystal ships. Those things are rough to deal with and junk

Is there any specific combination that will help me deal with these things? I can't seem to find any module combination that will let me fight them short of sending someone in to HOPEFULLY kill them before they get to a room with any modules and on Easy difficulty that's not exactly easy and these things seem to totally render the tower defense mechanics of the gameplay frustrating if not down right pointless.

Dudes, chill. I've been playing this game since 1.0 - I have more than 870 hours of play of a game that wasnt even released yet. So I've seen the many interactions this game had since the beginning, seen it become too long, turn unbalanced, then rebalanced, then unbalanced, the turned into tower defense, then turned into heroes defense, then mechanics, then rebalance of FIDS... don't tell me that I don't like the game, or I'm frustrated with it... because I KEEP playing it, despite all my criticism. I keep testing it, and my criticism is my report of the game so far.



You may think I'm a ♥♥♥♥♥ for complain of what I see is wrong, but in long term I'll help the devs way more than anyone that just cheers them up. I recognize their efforts, I love what they did with the game, I love the style of game and I love that the setting fits in the whole Endless universe - but that doesn't mean that I'll accept passively them hurting their own job - and many of you are clapping them for that.



Pterodactyl: despite I've been complainig of the mechanics of the game and the lack of balance, I've never got to the point of being personally offensive, just like you did. Criticise my criticism, but not my person. Your offense just tell us how your mind works and how far it's capable of going.



Zé Brazuca: I keep playing the game, sometimes I lose, most of the time I won. It's not so much about my performance - in FTL I lost 90% of the time :P. As I told before, I don't like the new mechanics and the unbalance, and yet I keep playing. But I believe that in long term these stuff will hurt the gameplay, and success of the game on release - thats why I'm so vitriolic on my posts. Call me sarcastic, but if this proves to be an efficient mean to reach the devs eyes, I'll be as sarcastic as needed. They are not babies walking for the first time that they need you cheering for their each step. They are grown up men and women who know what they are doing - and very capable of take the criticism themselves, and answer them, if they feel is the case. If they don't, it's not the case - and you both pointing fingers damage even more the community than me, because my criticism is at the game, and your criticism is to me criticising it. Think about that.

Fabs' latest reply is a case study to demonstrate what is the lack of understanding of the meaning of alpha and beta development stages of the game. Even if the game was released, it would have been a corrosive post which only serves to erode the morale and relationships inside the community. I plead to newcomers to be aware that wild swings in balance are expected, just like TacticalPteridactyl said. Now that we are in beta, those changes are supposed to be more gentle, but still happen until the game is released - and they might keep coming even after.



Open alpha and beta games are a means to give the players an early glimpse of how the game is shaping and give the devs CONSTRUCTIVE feedback on what works and what does not work. The prime question is:



Is this or that mechanic FUN?



The unfolding of this question over the several mechanics, inter-mechanics mechanics, and balance numbers are a constant change to refine the game into the final product.



If you just purchased the founder pack because of the goodies, but doesn't want to play an unbalanced/unfinished game, please refrain from playing until the game official release comes by, othewise you will only get frustrated.



Even if the game was released, Fabs attitude is a bad example which should not be followed. It is unnecesarily aggressive to the devs.



Amplitude Studios in particular is one of the new game studios with a very open development model, and listens very carefully to the players. As a community we must treasure that, and do our best to cater for and improve the amount of positive feedback in our community.



THere is also a longer term stretch goal: To show the established, traditional AAA game developers that this open development model CAN WORK. So it is our duty to help improving our general attitude and 'community vibe'. That's why I am reinforcing TacticalPteridactyl's of Fab's bad behaviour.



Then, I also do not think that Fabs should be crucified. I have not always had my best mood in forums before, and sometimes even bad writing had me sound like an a$$h0le even if it was not my intention. I think that Fabs language skill can improve and he might either wait until the game matures, or just change his mindset understanding that what the devs want is to have us giving them suggestions, and lashing out like that was/is utterly useless. We all can improve and be part of this making of a great game and an awesome gaming community.

Edit: By way of translation, for the gentry, I feel as though Fabs' contribution to the discussion & DotE's development is more hindrance than help. In full acknowledgement that DotE has until most recently been in alpha testing, it is unrealistic to expect the dev team to maintain the same balance as has existed in previous versions. On the contrary, alpha is the best time to make radical game-balance changes in order to get a sense for what works and what doesn't within the game's mechanics. Now that we are in beta, I expect consistency to improve, but I do not expect stability until the release. What Fabs has demonstrated is the unwillingness to adapt to changing circumstances, and is projecting hen's own failure onto others. I would suggest that Fabs keep this in mind, and maybe stick to games which have achieved v1 release states.

bewbtube wrote:
Is there any specific combination that will help me deal with these things?

No, there's not. It's the opposite of a game-breaker: it's the game breaking you.

bewbtube wrote:
I can't seem to find any module combination that will let me fight them short of sending someone in to HOPEFULLY kill them before they get to a room with any modules and on Easy difficulty that's not exactly easy and these things seem to totally render the tower defense mechanics of the gameplay frustrating if not down right pointless.

Because there's not, You can deny the inevitable if you have some tankish heroes in the frontline and food to keep healing them. To pray for them not to be along the red crystal spiders is advisable, but not necessarily effective. These unbalanced mobs are the proof the devs have no idea what they are doing at the time - they are just punching numbers randomly at each patch. My suggestion is that if you feeling their spawn is increasing too much, and you know the exit, run for it - you'll save a lot of industry and food for the next level.



Enjoy! ^^

seblasters, 2 of them, a neurostun module and prisoner prods in at least 2 rooms prior to you major modules should lay waste to any of the crystal mobs.

I just put the game into GodMode and oneshot them

There really isn't a good way to stop them besides going Hero heavy, upgrades and support modules wise. I started a topic on it:



/#/dungeon-of-the-endless/forum/47-game-design/thread/17708-module-counter-for-floating-green-crystal-ships



And it's been discuss here on Steam as well. So the Devs are aware, at the very least.



http://steamcommunity.com/app/249050/discussions/0/522730700744820754/

Prisioner prods are easy to spam. They do not have huge damage, but they are very cheap to replace it destroyed.

I think it's something the devs said they were gonna address in the next patch, meanwhile I like to have some dummy rooms with low cost modules to weed em out. Hope that helps a bit