This is obvious only my personal opinion.
And I also know that a lot of people will disagree with it, as it is technically a part of Endless Legend's main mechanics.
Being the lack of faction units.
Every faction only having 3 units, which limited ability to change them and adapt, was kinda annoying, if not straight up frustrating.

My personal hope and desire, would be for each faction to have 4-6 basic unit types (Similar to the hulls from ES2) which you yourself requip with equipment to fullfill roles.
Something in the vein of.

- Heavy infantry
- Light infantry
- Cavalry
- Support (magical)
- Large units
- Special units (Completely unique to the faction that don't fit in any other role)

I would love for these unit types to be equippable with a variety of weapons and equipment.
You could for example equip Light infantry with a sword and shield, or a two handed weapon, or a spear or a bow. Allowing them to do completely different tasks on the battlefield.
Large units being another example, imagining a golem unit or the like, that has access to a huge two handed hammer, but also access to essentially giant bows, making them equivalent to ballista.

And then you can have factions that lack heavy infantry for example or lack large units, to fit their fantasy in question.

I know this is probably a bit of an unrealistic demand as it would double the units required for each faction as well as making it harder to design each to be somewhat unique both visually and thematically. But I personally would find this EXTREMELY appealing.

Of course, this would / could cut into the purpose of the minor factions to fill certain roles.
But I have to be honest, IMO, I think the minor faction system is extremely flawed.
If you play a faction that lacks a solid melee unit (Morgawr comes to mind) I hope well you spawned next to a melee option. Because otherwise will you struggle early if you are surrounded by eyeless villages for example.

I just want to really focus on the faction thematic and allow customization inside of that bubble. 

That is just my hope, of course.

You know I do somewhat agree. While the idea with the older system was that you would get 3 combat roles per faction and then try to fill out the missing roles with the minor faction units, which did not always work, I think it could be better too. My idea is just make it so two units of the same role play very differently from each other.  And with them adding active abilities in EL2 they could in theory do that.

Now they could also still keep the 3 units per faction and just rework the minor faction completely to make it easier to get a role you are looking for. I suppose we will have to wait and see what they do, but I do agree with you.

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UnderKingDuck wrote:

You know I do somewhat agree. While the idea with the older system was that you would get 3 combat roles per faction and then try to fill out the missing roles with the minor faction units, which did not always work, I think it could be better too. My idea is just make it so two units of the same role play very differently from each other.  And with them adding active abilities in EL2 they could in theory do that.

Now they could also still keep the 3 units per faction and just rework the minor faction completely to make it easier to get a role you are looking for. I suppose we will have to wait and see what they do, but I do agree with you.

It is one of my core personal nitpicks.
When you can't have an army / fleet (in the case of ES2) where you have a uniformity.
When heroes and / or units don't match the rest.
It is just me and my personal preferences there of course, but it is just something that bugs me and I want to be able to avoid it, if possible.

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Tnecniw wrote:

It is one of my core personal nitpicks.

When you can't have an army / fleet (in the case of ES2) where you have a uniformity.
When heroes and / or units don't match the rest.
It is just me and my personal preferences there of course, but it is just something that bugs me and I want to be able to avoid it, if possible.

​I get you. In Legend 1 I would never recruit heroes from other factions because they didn't match with my units/faction. I also only rarely got any neutral units for the same reason; but I would go with full neutral armies... But I am also not a power gamer and I am okay having a suboptimal playstyle. 

I think yours is a very reasonable suggestion. EL having been their first foray into Civ type 4X gaming, I think 3 main units per faction was Amplitude's way of limiting scope in order to focus on core game mechanics. I can easily see them expanding this in EL2 since they are more experienced and PC's have come a long way from 2013, with massive processing gains which will allow for a more complex and fleshed out game. I like it.

You know since you did mention it, it would be really cool if when you do get a minor faction unit in your Empire they adopt some of the Aesthetics of your Empire. I realize that's a ton of work but man that would be cool.

Perhaps

If an army builder was in their vision for implementing EL2, they could use a similar system to hero outfitting with slots for the different components. Would it me archetypal, like Stellaris were every unit of that type is built or upgraded to the new loadout? Or have a number of possible saved variants, like Alpha Centauri, governed by an overall cap (20 designs)? It would allow customisation with resources availability, titanium in abundance but no glassteel, or iron because resources are needed elsewhere. I would like a settler module, Cavalry settlers (fast and fragile), Large settlers (costly but more developed). 

I would add a setup toggle for symbiotic minor spawn to allow players to eliminate the randomness if they desired.

You could have a tech (like Cultural Indoctrination) align minors to your empire aesthetic. There would need to be a large number of common assets to decrease bloat. 

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Mitth'raw'nuruodo wrote:

If an army builder was in their vision for implementing EL2, they could use a similar system to hero outfitting with slots for the different components. Would it me archetypal, like Stellaris were every unit of that type is built or upgraded to the new loadout? Or have a number of possible saved variants, like Alpha Centauri, governed by an overall cap (20 designs)? It would allow customisation with resources availability, titanium in abundance but no glassteel, or iron because resources are needed elsewhere. I would like a settler module, Cavalry settlers (fast and fragile), Large settlers (costly but more developed). 

I would add a setup toggle for symbiotic minor spawn to allow players to eliminate the randomness if they desired.

You could have a tech (like Cultural Indoctrination) align minors to your empire aesthetic. There would need to be a large number of common assets to decrease bloat. 

All I want is 
1: Visual unity. 
and
2: Flexibility.
I want the ability to make my units ranged or melee at my discression. 

The units themselves can have unique quirks and stats (to fit the factions) but having infantry that could be archers as well as spearmen is important IMO.

When I first started playing, I thought it was weird each faction only had three units – two of which you had to research. But once I saw the amount of customization and specialization from loadouts , one unit now felt like six or more units depending on your designs. I ended up liking it, because this forced the faction play styles to be completely different from each other. If they add more units, I'm worried it's going to homogenize the factions, and make them bland and boring. If they do add more units, I hope they're something completely different and unique to the faction, and make the factions more asymmetrical.

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Zentgraf wrote:

When I first started playing, I thought it was weird each faction only had three units – two of which you had to research. But once I saw the amount of customization and specialization from loadouts , one unit now felt like six or more units depending on your designs. I ended up liking it, because this forced the faction play styles to be completely different from each other. If they add more units, I'm worried it's going to homogenize the factions, and make them bland and boring. If they do add more units, I hope they're something completely different and unique to the faction, and make the factions more asymmetrical.

I don't disagree either necessarily.
But I always found it a tad bit annoying that it feels (To me) whenever i play EL that I can't field "my faction" as much as I need to field "A few units and minor factions" no matter what I do.

I dont think units should be customizable though

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Phonet wrote:

I dont think units should be customizable though

How so? :3

Having different units is a big part of faction asymmetry, so I'm happy for there to be more units per faction, but each faction should have a defined gap in their roster (no ranged, no big monsters etc.)

Total War Warhammer factions are very diverse, but as more units get added to each faction, the differences between the factions can get more blurred

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dongliz wrote:

Having different units is a big part of faction asymmetry, so I'm happy for there to be more units per faction, but each faction should have a defined gap in their roster (no ranged, no big monsters etc.)

Total War Warhammer factions are very diverse, but as more units get added to each faction, the differences between the factions can get more blurred

Not disagreeing on that either.
I just found the 3 Unit limit way too annoying.
I even mentioned above that the factions could lack 1-2 versions or restrictions and so on.

I cannot confirm the number of units but all factions will have their own units and will share similar archetypes, like having X ranger on Y faction and then having something similar on another faction, but different. In the end, we will try that the units of factions feel different in their own way.
Difficult to explain without the details 😅

Also, you will count with minor units, that have their units that could synergize with your current game/playstyle,

I didn't mind the 3 unit system. I enjoyed customizing them to fit my needs.

If they do go with set units, I hope they do something similar to the earlier Age of Wonders games, where each faction had unique units to them, not just reskins on "light melee", "heavy melee", "cavalry", "ranged", etc...

Hello

Just my 2 cents here...

I was not bothered by the unit limits. It was a good way to take first in the game back in those days.

I am more concerned by somthing Civ games have for a very long time and Endless Games never had : the Hotseat Multi ! I know it seems old fationed but Civilzation kept it. I played Heroes Hour an Indy HOMM like game and the Dev kept the multi hotseat. SO why not get a multi hotseat for Endless ? It would be great IMO

Not sure how the hotseat multiplayer would work with simultaneous turns.

I hope there won’t be the same frequent desynchronization issues as in EL1 and Humankind. It really frustrated me that when playing with friends, we often encountered desync and had to restart the session.​

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FabionFox wrote:

I hope there won’t be the same frequent desynchronization issues as in EL1 and Humankind. It really frustrated me that when playing with friends, we often encountered desync and had to restart the session.​

Yes please. This issue has plagued my multiplayer games.

I feel like your suggestion is how the system already works in Endless Legend 1 though? The units have very different appearances between factions, but they all have 3 out of Infantry, Support, Cavalry, Ranged or Flying, which you can equip with different gear to fulfill different battlefield roles:

• Infantry: Two-handed for damage; Sword and Shield for frontlining.
• Support: Buffing/Healing or Debuffing/CC
• Cavalry: As unit type counters
• Ranged: Crossbows for frontlining with the benifits of not getting hit back; Bows for kitting
• Flying: AoE damage or unit type Counters

I forgot the exact weapons for the types beyond infantry and ranged.

Some factions put twists in these unit types, specially the minor factions, for instance Vaulter infantry gets Claws, which have different benefits and status effects when compared to two-handed and sword and shield. Forgotten being able to dual-wield. I think there is a faction or minor faction with Ranged Cavalry.

I found it really fun to add minor faction units which complemented my faction's unit rooster. Not that I am against them changing this system or improving upon it, it just sounded to me like the changes you are suggesting are how Endless Legend 1 already works.

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NoTLucas wrote:

I feel like your suggestion is how the system already works in Endless Legend 1 though? The units have very different appearances between factions, but they all have 3 out of Infantry, Support, Cavalry, Ranged or Flying, which you can equip with different gear to fulfill different battlefield roles:

• Infantry: Two-handed for damage; Sword and Shield for frontlining.
• Support: Buffing/Healing or Debuffing/CC
• Cavalry: As unit type counters
• Ranged: Crossbows for frontlining with the benifits of not getting hit back; Bows for kitting
• Flying: AoE damage or unit type Counters

I forgot the exact weapons for the types beyond infantry and ranged.

Some factions put twists in these unit types, specially the minor factions, for instance Vaulter infantry gets Claws, which have different benefits and status effects when compared to two-handed and sword and shield. Forgotten being able to dual-wield. I think there is a faction or minor faction with Ranged Cavalry.

I found it really fun to add minor faction units which complemented my faction's unit rooster. Not that I am against them changing this system or improving upon it, it just sounded to me like the changes you are suggesting are how Endless Legend 1 already works.

I think hes talking about increasing the unit rosters in general. i.e more than 3 units

Just chiming in to heavily disagree, what sets EL apart from other 4X is its highly asymmetric style (and very engaging fantasy universe), having factions have only 3 types of core units is part of that. When you build around that, customizing and equipping accordingly your units with what you have well that's interesting. Having to weight in this faction minor's bonus to your empire against what unit it brings to the table in terms of unit, that's an interesting choice. That's the gameplay I want.

If you didn't spawn next to what you already decided you need, well now you can try to play the game differently then what you're used to do every game. Out of constraint you get creativity, if the goal is to have a BO for running your empire I don't find it fun.
Disclaimer : While I played a lot of multiplayer EL, none of it was competitive and my view point is much of a single player perspective.

Finally the customization in EL is one of the best thing they have, both in terms of strategic and aesthetics. I spent as much time creating army models in EL as creating characters in BG3.