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How do you see your nation in game?

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5 years ago
Apr 6, 2020, 9:47:44 PM

So, we know, that nations in humankind divided into following categories: builders, agrarians, expansionists, merchants, aesthetes, scientinsts and warmongers.


Wich of those classes can your country be classified  as?


As for me, a russian, I do think that both The Grand Duchy of Moscow and The Russian Empire can be an expansionists , while The Novgorod Republic can be a merchant state. As fo USSR it's either a warmonger or a builder. I'm not sure about modern day Russia though. 

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4 years ago
Jun 20, 2020, 1:28:25 PM

Interesting point ! :)


Well, for France, i'd definitely say Aesthete !


Historically speaking, we went to agrarians (Gaule), to militarists (Francs), to aesthetes expansionists (if that makes sense, with Monarchie, colonization, Napoleon's campaigns), ending with aesthetes (roughly since the 19th century).


I'm curious to know how you'd recreate the history of Russia given those traits. I guess there'd be a lot of similarities with France, right ?

Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Jun 22, 2020, 2:25:36 AM

Most modern day country can be classified as most of the above. France for example is Aesthete for sure, it's also a major economic power and trade a lot, one of their main source or trade are firearms, making them somewhat of a Militarist (also they have a pretty powerful army), France has a strong scientific field and build some pretty cool thing like surgeon robots or planes, making them both Builders and Scientist, and of course France has a strong agrarian tradition. The only thing modern France isn't is expansionnist and it can apply to most of the developped country in the world. So really those kind of country could be classified as anything, if we choose what's represent them the best tho, Aesthete is deffinitly the way to go for France

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4 years ago
Jun 22, 2020, 6:04:38 PM
KurouRingo wrote:
one of their main source or trade are firearms

What ?! Really ?! I thought it was camembert and red wine :P

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4 years ago
Jun 24, 2020, 6:56:49 PM

I came from germany and i would say that we went from barbarian german tribes in the ancient (warmongers, agrarians?) to militaristic, religious trader and builders in the middle ages (rater builders and merchants), to cultured, scientifical progressiv nation in the 18. /19. century (aesthetes, scientists) to nationalistic warmongers in the first half of 20 century. Nowadays i would classified "the germans" as scientists, agrarians, merchants and diplomatics ( i miss some categorys).


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4 years ago
Jun 26, 2020, 12:26:59 AM

Good question! 


To take my small contry, Norway I would say merchants. 


Our main trait in populare culture is the fearsome raiding vikings, so many would perhaps say warmongers. 

But the truth is that the main ploy of the vikings was trade. One fun example, there are several accounts of vikings promising great armies to aid the continental royalty in thei wars in exchange of gold. This was of course a lie, the vikings where never that many and did not have the strength so they never showed ut to any of the battles. Good marketing based on the little information available in those days! And today, we only survice though some substantial savings , and the sale of raw materials (fish and oil).


I would like to mention that the other "viking nations", Denmak should be aesthetes because of their great design and sweden builders (as I am a chemist I would also give a shout out to all the elements discovered in Sweden so also a "scientinsts" for Sweden).

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4 years ago
Jun 27, 2020, 12:33:40 AM

Brazil would definitely be merchant right after independence, and after that, agrarian. As said above, it's currently supposed to be a bit of each, but i think it's still too much agrarian, unfortunately.

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4 years ago
Jun 27, 2020, 9:06:39 PM

For Trinidad & Tobago, I'd say either merchants or aesthetes. We do export a lot of oil and natural gas, but we focus a lot on the arts too. We have original genres of music (calypso, chutney, soca, etc), Carnival, and a lot of famous painters and designers, past and present.

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4 years ago
Jun 29, 2020, 6:33:30 PM

Brazil, definitly would be agrarians!!!! But if u consider Dom Pedro II, nicknamed "the Magnanimous", whom was the second and last monarch of the Empire of Brazil, we should be known as expansionists!!! All the wars we fought we won and We are the largest country in South America!

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4 years ago
Jul 31, 2020, 9:51:58 PM

The United States is quite clearly the child of Great Britain.  It was, throughout most of its history, expansionist.  Not just in North America, either - there were designes on Cuba, and at one point an adventurer went to Nicaragua to incite rebellion with the ultimate goal of bringing the territory under US control.  


Now, we've been ever other one of those categories at one time or another - even in the beginning.  But overall?  If I had to pick a single overarching theme?  Expansion.

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4 years ago
Aug 1, 2020, 4:49:50 AM

I disagree. I think amarica is better characterized as a builder nation. I mean it bootstraped itself from a backwater agraian socioty to the world power over a scant few centuries. Further amarica has heped many contries to rebound from economic devistation throgh industrial might.

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4 years ago
Aug 1, 2020, 10:21:31 AM

Now that's interesting, my country (Italy) has been literally every single class at one time or the other. Expansionist / warmonger / builder /agrarian as Roman empire, merchants during the middle ages, aesthetes and scientists during Renaissance, agrarian / expansionist in 19th century, warmonger / expansionist in early 20th century.

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4 years ago
Aug 2, 2020, 9:47:36 PM

I feel like America would probably be expansionist. One of our big ideas back in the day was manifest destiny and I feel like imperalization is a mix of expantionist and military culture which America also really likes doing, to the detriment of places like the Middle East and South America. Warmmonger might fit too, especially from Teddy onward but I feel like that would fit a nation like Germany better.

Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Aug 2, 2020, 11:48:05 PM
Hayard wrote:

Brazil would definitely be merchant right after independence, and after that, agrarian. As said above, it's currently supposed to be a bit of each, but i think it's still too much agrarian, unfortunately.

I have to agree, unfortunately, we are pretty much an agrarian nation nowadays. We had an aesthetes side, specially with music, in the last century and we have some good scientist but usually exported to other nations.

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4 years ago
Aug 10, 2020, 12:48:16 PM

It really depends on which era of Brazil's history.

Colony (15th to early 19th century): Agrarian

Empire and Republic (mid 19th century until the 1970s): Aesthete  => This would be my favorite. Top productions in music, cinema, modern art, literature, etc.

Contemporary: Back to agrarian

Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Aug 12, 2020, 4:38:29 PM

Bit of a tough one for Croatia.

At its medieval height around the 12th century, I would probably say agrarian.

In the modern era, I lean more towards scientist just for the fact that there's a surprising number of modern inventions that come from Croatia. Otherwise, probably still agrarian.

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4 years ago
Aug 12, 2020, 6:09:45 PM

As a french, I'd say agrarian, but there's was also some expansion during the Napoleon period.

...I really wonder how we would be categorized in the early stage. At some point france was more like Aesthete.

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4 years ago
Aug 15, 2020, 4:44:51 AM

Asking the wrong question. It is more of a question of nation at a time period rather than overall.

Such as Rome, Classical Era. Expansion, builders. Surely. As a lot of what they have done stands today.
Britannia, Renaissance. Merchants? Expansionists? 
Scots or Picts?
Francs or France.
Norse or Norway?
Germany or Prussia?

Leaders and time periods really define what a nation was about at that current moment.Then its framed on what they were most famous for.

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4 years ago
Sep 23, 2020, 2:11:19 PM
deo wrote:

I feel like America would probably be expansionist. One of our big ideas back in the day was manifest destiny and I feel like imperalization is a mix of expantionist and military culture which America also really likes doing, to the detriment of places like the Middle East and South America. Warmmonger might fit too, especially from Teddy onward but I feel like that would fit a nation like Germany better.

Compared to nations and empires of the past, Manifest Destiny was child's play. Even though it's popular today to talk about Manifest Destiny because it's one of America's sins (and it was), I don't think it is correct to choose it to be something that identifies the nation.


Science is definitely #1.  There are just too many inventions from the modern era that come from the US.  I think that technology is probably America's greatest contribution to the world.


After this, it's difficult.  Aesthete is a strong choice because modern performance, Hollywood and music, (from jazz, to rock, to R&B/soul/hip-hop) are the next greatest contributions the USA has made. This is ironic because Europeans I think like to poke fun at America for being so puritanical and anti-liberal, yet they still love our music and movies. Aesthete doesn't have to mean liberal arts.


Builder seems to make sense, but honestly, so much of America's early infrastructure was based on a slave economy, it's hard to paint that in a positive light.  


Although America may produce the most amount of wheat/corn/bread in the world (or at least used to), Agrarian doesn't feel right to me. I think that's because Agrarian makes me think of ancient empires only (Egypt), but maybe that's incorrect.


But Expansionist?  No way.  Wars in Cuba, Korea and Vietnam, and the control over the North American continent do not make America close to expansionist IMO when you compare them to other empires' expansionist accomplishments over the centuries (Rome, England, Mongolia, etc).

Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Sep 25, 2020, 6:12:51 PM

When it comes to Poland I think it's quite wrong. 


Trait - militaristic. I disagree. Poland was never truly militaristic (or more militaristic than any of her neighbors) and having winged hussars and winning some awesome battles with them is not good enough to justify it. True, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was one of the largest countries in europe, but it never had any real imperialistic plans to conquer everyone. Also the army was often underfunded and relied on the nobility (which doesn't mean it was militaristic, since many other countries relied on nobility as well) which, of course, loved military life, but again - nobility in most coutries back then was expected to undergo military training and fight in wars. 

Of course all civilizations had a bit of every trait, but if I had to choose I'd say that PLC was mostly agrarian. Plenty of grain was produced in PLC and exported to the western Europe. It was one of the most important trade goods actually. Then the wood exported to Britain from which English ships were made (and the English word "spruce" was created ;) ). Also nobility was greedy and imposed serfdom up to XIXth century where each peasant family had to work on the nobleman's estate for certain number of days per week. Then maybe scientific because some great discoveries and great scientist were either Polish or lived in PLC (Copernicus, Marie Curie, Hevelius, Fahrenheit and others whose names would probably mean nothing to most of you ;) ) but if I had to pick just one - then it's definitely agrarian. 


Unit - winged hussar. Well, that's perfect. If I had to choose one unit from the whole history of Poland then definitely it's them. Absolutely insane guys, with morale and training giving them ability to achieve unbelievable victories. Unfortunately the art (and probably the 3D model which was not yet shown) is ahistoric. It's based on a wrong reconstruction from XIX century. Real winged hussars had usually only one "wing" and it was usually attached to the back of the saddle, not to the cuirass.





Last two ones are from XVII century and are showing the original hussars. Sticking to the historic hussars would be a nice gesture from the devs.


Barbican - I'm not really sure it's really that unique. But I also can't think of any good replacement. Maybe the "folwark" (large farming estate) which would fit the agrarian trait.   

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4 years ago
Oct 7, 2020, 11:57:10 AM

Us Indonesians are, truthfully told only good at two things: war and music making. But we are VERY good at them.

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4 years ago
Oct 7, 2020, 2:20:10 PM

Hoo boy... For Germany, it's been and still is a hell of a ride through history.


Part Roman Empire, part barbarians. Then kingdoms,  Absolutism, Holy Roman Empire, Napoleon wars, then the fall of the Holy Roman Empire.

And after that... many kingdoms (again), German Civil Revolution in 1848/49, Otto von Bismarck founding of the German Empire  after the three Unification Wars. (Thus, I must say that, in the 19th century, Germany didn't consist of Prussia only. The founding in 1871 was something that Germans in all those kingdoms wanted after the fall on the Holy Roman Empire. Sidefact/Funfact: Our national anthem was originally written because of that but the first verse was misinterpreted after WWII which is why we only sing the third verse nowadays.)

20th century: World War I (1914-18), Weimar Republic (1918-45), World War II (1939-45), DDR and BRD (1949-90), peaceful revolution and unification in 1989/90.


So, how do I see my nation in the game?

I don't know, as long as you can recognize it as Germans and not picture it with clichés. xD

But I would picture the culture as an economic power, and less of a militaristic one. Well, thanks to certain people in the 19th and 20th century, Germany's militaristic side was more visible internationally.

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4 years ago
Dec 13, 2020, 3:05:55 AM

But Expansionist?  No way.  Wars in Cuba, Korea and Vietnam, and the control over the North American continent do not make America close to expansionist IMO when you compare them to other empires' expansionist accomplishments over the centuries (Rome, England, Mongolia, etc).

Expansion is perfect. Rome and Mongolia might fit as warmongers. It is ironic that we're the result of England's early expansionism, however. England has been kicked out of most of the nations it "expanded" into, while all the nations we expanded over have been erased or economically isolated and contained within our borders. The conflict examples of Cuba, Vietnam, Korea, and the Philippines are good points on why we aren't very warmongering (although still debatable considering the last 70 years alone) and make a better case of why we're more purely expansionist.


But expansion covers the many other points, too.


Science? Not really. We've got the strongest anti-science stance of any other Western nation. Sure we invented the internet, the foundation of the modern world, but did America, really? Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of the web protocols that allow Google, Apple, and Facebook to exist is English. Many of the early internet contributors were Dutch and German. Many of our great scientists were immigrants or children of immigrants. Henry Ford was the son of an Irishman and the grandson to Belgians. Expansion gave us plenty of resources to play with and attract talent. Our history of relatively open immigration (expansion, surely) fueled nearly all of our success. A lot of our celebrated inventions got their start in science from Europe or elsewhere (Radio came from Italy, the telephone was invented in England, so was the first computer, Marie Curie was French-Romanian). Edison regularly stole inventions from immigrants and even colleagues by abusing the patent system, expansionist if I ever heard it!


Aesthete? Definitely not. Most of our music came from (and co-opted from) marginalized groups, and while entirely American in the way they came together and mixed, it was actively fought against every step of the way. Jazz, rock, and hip-hop each progressively became the most popular musical form of its day, and each denounced by American authorities as evil and corruptive. Even our liberal admistrations of late rarely push to invest in the arts. Again, it's our expansion that drove into new areas. Even Hollywood was founded by artists escaping the controlling movie trade companies that held New York in thrall, only to have a couple of decades later an even more powerful studio system that snapped up and controlled talent. Plus our economic expansion is why our movies, music, and TV are world famous, not because of any particular investment or quality. Many French, German, or Indian movies I could identify as such with a frame because of a particular style, usually close to the culture. Our movies? The famous ones are generally big and expensive. To be fair, we haven't had much time to develop our own style in much of anything outside of food and music. Yet our cultural products dominate the world, despite our best efforts not to have an interesting culture, because of our hunger for economic expansion (and taking culture from others whenever possible).


Builder could suit us, but mostly because we had the space to build into. A lot of it was and continues to be exploited labor, as rightly called out. But exploitation is the result of an expansionist mindset. Post WWII building was dramatic and would make a good counter point, but largely that was luck of placement and strong anti-warmongering that kept us out of the thick of things. It's easy to build when you've got open valleys that only have the corpses from smallpox and small arm battles a century or more old, rather than landmines and the scars or bombing campaigns.


Agarian also, was something we moved away from quickly (especially once we limited slavery to prison populations), but we remain strong because of the expansion past.


If they define expansion to include economies, we definitely fit the category like no other. Maybe they'll define that more as a builder side of things, then it might be a toss up, even if that means fessing up to the ugly truth that much of our building success comes from getting anyone we can exploit to do the real labor for us.

Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Dec 13, 2020, 3:22:44 AM

Well I guess it's unimportant, since most of cultures/countries excelled or had huge interests onto much more than just one field.


Thus, picking one category for each culture can be arbitrary. And for the sake of Game-play, I would like to see various affinities across all eras.


For example, only expansionists or militarists in a certain era would be... lame and monotone. More flavour is always welcome.


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4 years ago
Dec 31, 2020, 12:38:59 PM

@Blightcrawler I don't think it's entirely fair to dismiss most of the points on American achievements just because of the methods that were used and such. At the end of the day these were all attributed to the country and that's what matters for the purpose of the game. The Jagiellon dynasty started as Hungarian but you don't attribute the feats of Poland to Hungary.


Anyway Poland being an Early Modern civ is a perfect time frame for them if there had to be only one era they could fit in, this era encompassed so much progress of the PLC as well as its downfall that any number of affinities could be attributed to it. The Unique Unit being the winged Hussar is perfect, and their trait preventing counterattacks is a nice nod to the design of their lances, and how they were so long pike formations couldn't properly defend or counter the cavalry charge, it's great to see that in-game.

The Quarter however I'm disappointed with, a Barbican is rather generic as far as emblematic quarters are concerned, so generic I can even see it being a building every culture can build once they discover the usefulness of firing from overhangs. The ability that prevents nearby tiles from being raided is also ironically funny to me as Poland had many issues with raids during this time period, especially by the Swedish. It also lost most of its use during this exact time frame as artillery became more prevalent and was eventually phased out. I have problems figuring out a suitable replacement that fills the exact same roll and effect however.

As for Affinity I see the reason behind choosing Militarist rather clearly and the legacy bonus further supports this. The Poles were in constant warfare and mostly on the defensive, therefore they were chosen to be a militaristic affinity with a bonus to fortification strength. Let me say I think the legacy trait is too weak as of right now in the game and that 10 bonus fortification amounts to nothing and should be buffed or changed in some way, seriously it's really bad. Back to affinity, the actual military of the commonwealth was rather inconsistent over the course of its lifespan, with a shortage of troops as time went on and an increasing dependence on the nobility as reforms were halted and defending the country became increasingly difficult. The Russian-dominated office at the start of the 16th century restricted the growth maximum size of the army, which made it rather un-miliataristic.

Agrarian I can certainly see, Poland was rather rural compared to other countries and was quite the breadbasket during this time. Aesthete is also applicable as they were known for their swaths of political reforms, culture and even creating the first constitution in Europe. While having some very notable scientists and contributing greatly to the fields of mathematics and astronomy I don't think that's enough to peg them as a science culture, but it's still an important part of the history. Either Agrarian or Aesthete are appropriate replacements however I'd also be okay with Poland keeping its defensive militarist affinity, but having a new Emblematic district instead.


Changes to the Emblematic District are my biggest concern so I think replacing it with the Folwark, as earlier mentioned by @AquilaSPQR  would be a potential good idea. The Folwark is after all a fortified farm, which could synergize with the polish improved defence while also paying heed to their farming capabilities. Possibly providing the existing prevention of ransacking while also providing food and exploiting nearby food tiles. I don't think it'd be too unbalanced, especially considering how weak fortifications are in the current state of the game, so I'd love to see it. As for a 1-1 replacement with the Barbican should the Folwark be dismissed, there's the option of changing its name to the polish version Barbakan to at least make seem a bit more distinct, but I'm still of the opinion it should be buffed, along with the other unique bastion varients in the game such as the cyclopean fortress.

Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Dec 31, 2020, 1:54:35 PM

America seems like agrarian earlier in it's history, than industrial, and, then commercial, currently we seem to have a case of the stupid's... not sure what that is, Aesthetite? :D

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4 years ago
Dec 31, 2020, 3:59:02 PM

Dominican Republic


We would agrarian during the 19th century and Aesthete during the 20th and 21st century, since tourism and influence in the Caribbean would be our forte right now.

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4 years ago
Jan 4, 2021, 6:11:32 PM
RabidHobbit wrote:
deo wrote:

I feel like America would probably be expansionist. One of our big ideas back in the day was manifest destiny and I feel like imperalization is a mix of expantionist and military culture which America also really likes doing, to the detriment of places like the Middle East and South America. Warmmonger might fit too, especially from Teddy onward but I feel like that would fit a nation like Germany better.

Compared to nations and empires of the past, Manifest Destiny was child's play. Even though it's popular today to talk about Manifest Destiny because it's one of America's sins (and it was), I don't think it is correct to choose it to be something that identifies the nation.


Science is definitely #1.  There are just too many inventions from the modern era that come from the US.  I think that technology is probably America's greatest contribution to the world.


After this, it's difficult.  Aesthete is a strong choice because modern performance, Hollywood and music, (from jazz, to rock, to R&B/soul/hip-hop) are the next greatest contributions the USA has made. This is ironic because Europeans I think like to poke fun at America for being so puritanical and anti-liberal, yet they still love our music and movies. Aesthete doesn't have to mean liberal arts.


Builder seems to make sense, but honestly, so much of America's early infrastructure was based on a slave economy, it's hard to paint that in a positive light.  


Although America may produce the most amount of wheat/corn/bread in the world (or at least used to), Agrarian doesn't feel right to me. I think that's because Agrarian makes me think of ancient empires only (Egypt), but maybe that's incorrect.


But Expansionist?  No way.  Wars in Cuba, Korea and Vietnam, and the control over the North American continent do not make America close to expansionist IMO when you compare them to other empires' expansionist accomplishments over the centuries (Rome, England, Mongolia, etc).

You have to remember that America in this game is in the Contemporary Era (End of WW1 onward), so Expansionist for Manifest Destiny doesn't make sense. Science I could see, for the companies in Silicon Valley and other places, but I feel like those make a better argument for Merchant. However, I would personally go for Militarist, for the US defense budget, which is larger than the next 10 countries combined.

P.S. The liberal in liberal arts has a different connotation than in the US left-liberal, or the European libertarian-liberal. The liberal in it means "befitting of a free man," and is used for any intellectual, mind developing, activity, as opposed to more servile, mechanical labor. This historically included science, but nowadays, science is seen as more practical.  

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