Is tier 3 titanium armor supposed to be that ridiculous?

hashinshin

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jun 24, 2014, 7:21:41 PM

It's pretty insane, to a ludicrous degree. I have to imagine that it's bugged or at least not intended, But I'd like to ask to figure it out.

Tier 3 glassteel/titanium unlocked through quests gives RIDICULOLUS stats.

drewwest

Mage

Check out my idea please: https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/684-hero-ships-should-use-player-colours

drewwest

Mage

33 500g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 24, 2014, 7:26:56 PM

LOL I just noticed this!!! my units have been doing like 300 damage!!! My marines have like 290 critical Oo

hashinshin

Newcomer

hashinshin

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jun 24, 2014, 7:33:59 PM

Yeah I had my new unit get caught by 2 vinesnakes and was like welp lets get this over with.

He took no damage crit them for 100 and then I Was like... kay.

Dalwin

Newcomer

Dalwin

Newcomer

21 200g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 24, 2014, 8:35:52 PM

I certainly hope that is a data entry error in the table and that it gets fixed. This game needs units to die more slowly, not more quickly.

Didn't the notes say something to the effect that they were boosting the tier one resources by about 20% in era three so those resources retained some utility? I wonder if a typo increased them by 200% instead.

gefp

Old Timer

gefp

Old Timer

13 300g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 24, 2014, 8:38:39 PM

I'm more concerned that main quest for BL started to give out WW bows. Yeah, very nice, game, you know very well how good BL with bows..not! I wouldn't be so concerned if it was quest from ruins - they're random, after all, but this is reward from faction's questline.

hashinshin

Newcomer

hashinshin

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jun 24, 2014, 8:54:04 PM

Followup note: SO MANY special weapons have completely rigged out of this world stats. My tier 2 titanium sword is giving me 35 damage and 35 initiative.

I think you guys should really do a pass on your stats because right now it's just bonkers.

I'm using Broken Lords right now, using it on Stalwarts.

drewwest

Mage

Check out my idea please: https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/684-hero-ships-should-use-player-colours

drewwest

Mage

33 500g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 24, 2014, 8:55:59 PM

Yeah stats, and unit abilities seem to be all over the shop

JErosion

Newcomer

JErosion

Newcomer

4 100g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 25, 2014, 4:34:45 AM

keep in mind its also ridiculous a amount of titanium to fully outfit just one of your guys.

Tsvitok

Newcomer

Tsvitok

Newcomer

100g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 25, 2014, 6:57:05 AM

It's pretty crazy, but like Drew said, stats are all over the shop.

Unfortunately it's kind of hard to tell if it was an error or just overindulgence on the stats.

I'd love to see tiers pulled closer together as it is, and stats and abilities get some closer attention.

All part of the balancing process.

hashinshin

Newcomer

hashinshin

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jun 25, 2014, 7:30:33 AM

Tsvitok wrote:
It's pretty crazy, but like Drew said, stats are all over the shop.

Unfortunately it's kind of hard to tell if it was an error or just overindulgence on the stats.

I'd love to see tiers pulled closer together as it is, and stats and abilities get some closer attention.

All part of the balancing process.

Yeah I imagine a full set of titanium giving me a slight advantage. As is a tier 1 set of titanium armor basically makes you a god and not even tier 3 iron can reasonably fight you.

They need t o go back through and make things a little more reasonable. For starters they need to go back and make the stats inline with their actual tooltips, and then we can address from there if it's still too powerful.

DEVMeedoc

Dev

I'm a cool guy.

DEVMeedoc

Dev

48 400g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 25, 2014, 7:40:54 AM

Hello,

We found a bug on how the efficiency is applied and it will be fixed in a next update.

Cheers,

VIPThe-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

Shifter

VIPThe-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

Shifter

58 400g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 25, 2014, 9:28:14 AM

Has Titanium gotten even more out of hand since the previous version? I haven't yet had a chance to try Tier 3 Titanium in this version, and I never made a habit of bothering with Tier 1 Titanium gear. But even in the previous version, getting ranged units up to a 50% chance of dealing 50 extra damage was pretty beastly. I once watched a single Marine hold off an onslaught of a mixed force of 8 units, Marines and Dawn Officers, by virtue of killing them in them half the time. And in that game, I had pretty much given up and only retrofitted that guy with Titanium in an "Eh, why not. Let's see how well it works" gesture of resignation.

I believe that the "critical" stat affects not only the chance to do a critical strike, but also the damage it deals. This may have been a bug, or not. If it is not, then each increase tot he critical stat will give bigger bonuses than the last, since the damage increase will be quadratic. A little bit of confirmation on this from the devs, and a better explanation of the combat mechanics in general, would be greatly appreciated.

hashinshin

Newcomer

hashinshin

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jun 25, 2014, 9:43:09 AM

Meedoc wrote:
Hello,

We found a bug on how the efficiency is applied and it will be fixed in a next update.

Cheers,

Can you guys do a pass on crit? Right now the more crit you have the more powerful crit becomes, which means that Titanium just becomes sort of insane past tier 1. I'pd really like to see crit just be 1.5x damage, or something like that, rather than crit being (Crit = Crit chance, Crit = Crit damage.) The double scaling makes the stat get out of control quickly.

DEVMeedoc

Dev

I'm a cool guy.

DEVMeedoc

Dev

48 400g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 25, 2014, 5:13:08 PM

The idea behind the critical is to give the possibility to build units able to break opponent's defence. Still, the damage formula may need to be reworked.

Currently, the damages are computed as following:

1) If there is an armor value; target.armor -= attack - target.defense (armor is only given by a city when attacked, and is equal to the city defense value)

Else target.health -= attack - target.defense

There are two invisible modifier that can be applied: DamageMultiplier which can be modified by abilities such as "strong against" or "low damages" and BattleDamageReduction which is increased by Forest and Moral mainly.

So the true formula is target.armor/health -= (attack * DamageMultiplier - target.defense) * target.BattleDamageReduction

2) For the moment, critical always hit the health, even if there is an armor value. The odd to do a critical is related to the critical value, and the damages dealt are equal to critical * DamageMultiplier.

Tsvitok

Newcomer

Tsvitok

Newcomer

100g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 26, 2014, 3:09:04 AM

I think critical bypassing armour and being stacked with damage multiplier is why crit is so strong.

Others might have a different idea for this but I'd say change it to something like;

Critical is a percentage chance you'll bypass armour/defense.

The damage formula is always target.armor/health -= (attack * DamageMultiplier - target.defense) * target.BattleDamageReduction

Crit could then add a multiplier like strong against/low damage.

That's just one idea, I'm sure there are plenty of others.

VIPThe-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

Shifter

VIPThe-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

Shifter

58 400g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 29, 2014, 1:57:55 PM

Meedoc wrote:
The idea behind the critical is to give the possibility to build units able to break opponent's defence. Still, the damage formula may need to be reworked.

Currently, the damages are computed as following:

1) If there is an armor value; target.armor -= attack - target.defense (armor is only given by a city when attacked, and is equal to the city defense value)

Else target.health -= attack - target.defense

There are two invisible modifier that can be applied: DamageMultiplier which can be modified by abilities such as "strong against" or "low damages" and BattleDamageReduction which is increased by Forest and Moral mainly.

So the true formula is target.armor/health -= (attack * DamageMultiplier - target.defense) * target.BattleDamageReduction

2) For the moment, critical always hit the health, even if there is an armor value. The odd to do a critical is related to the critical value, and the damages dealt are equal to critical * DamageMultiplier.

Now, this is some really valuable information to a player (and potential xml modder) like me. The time at which DamageMultiplier and BattleDamageReduction are applied can make a massive difference. I really do hope details like this will be clear once a tutorial is added to the game.

As far as criticals are concerned, I might suggest simply having critical hits bypass the defense stat or reduce it by a certain amount. THat would not be as ridiculously powerful as it can become now with its quadratic growth, but I don't think it would become completely worthless, either.

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