Cultist governor as op as it looks? - Endless Legend

Cultist governor as op as it looks?

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Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

11 years ago

Sep 25, 2014, 3:40:35 AM

Generally speaking heroes of any faction should be available to every faction, if only because most of the affinities don't care what victory you want to do (excepting of course Broken Lords, Cultists, and Necrophages as being quite focused).

However heroes from cross-faction need some tuning to make certain ones (coughCultistsandWildWalkerscough) a bit less of a necessity.

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Empressium

Newcomer

Empressium

Newcomer

11 years ago

Sep 26, 2014, 5:47:10 AM

Well i thought drakken hero governing city is a bit too good, until those cultist hero showed up and yes they're too OP lol

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Patremagne

Newcomer

Patremagne

Newcomer

11 years ago

Sep 26, 2014, 2:51:20 AM

Phalnax811 wrote:
I really wish we could only hire heroes of our Faction only...or add neutral minor race heroes.

I'd agree to that if there was more hero variety in terms of looks. They're all the same outside of portrait as far as I've seen.

edit: is this something that can be modded? Did people do things like this for ES?

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Sir-Rogers

Guardian

Sir-Rogers

Guardian

11 years ago

Sep 26, 2014, 1:24:11 AM

It REALLY depends on the game. What stage of the game you hire them, etc...

I usually never hire cultist heros, because there are others that give you the boost you need right now. It depends on the city that you want to allocate it to as well, lots of things to calculate.

Sure very late game they are the best, after a few hours of playing Sim Cit... erm Endless Legend, sure they are the best. Realistically seen you are also fighting other people in Multiplayer for example, where such an end game eco choice might not be the best one.

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MODNosferatiel

Informer

"God's in his heaven, all's right with the world." Nerv Motto, Neon Genesis Evangelion

MODNosferatiel

Informer

11 years ago

Sep 26, 2014, 1:04:01 AM

Razis wrote:
1) - That's cutting off gameplay from other factions. Not a valid solution, if I was the one to make the call.

2) - Yes, sort of, but having cultists faction trait as the one pure governor type is also nice. Can't be really done with any other hero to go 100% governor spec.

Give the cultists the Eternal Queen as fixed nonmovable special governor with her own skill tree as option 3? That would require some coding, though, and make the programmers of Amplitude hate me even more, for bringing that up.

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Razis

Forgotten

Razis

Razis

Forgotten

11 years ago

Sep 26, 2014, 12:57:35 AM

Autocthon wrote:
Better solutions:

1)Cultist Heroes are only available to Cultists

or

2) Cultist Hero FIDSI boost moved into the affinity itself, racials made more combat-centric

1) - That's cutting off gameplay from other factions. Not a valid solution, if I was the one to make the call.

2) - Yes, sort of, but having cultists faction trait as the one pure governor type is also nice. Can't be really done with any other hero to go 100% governor spec.

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VIPAnwyl

Chameleon

.

VIPAnwyl

Chameleon

11 years ago

Sep 25, 2014, 8:39:50 PM

From the competition entry:

The Cult of the Eternal End has two leaders.

The Eternal Queen, an abomination of an experiment imprisoned in an Endless body. She was the first experiment of rogue researchers on Auriga, where some Virtuals and Concrete worked together during the last war to create a perfect being, a new race that would hold all the virtues and none of the vices of the Endless, to replace them and banish the ruin the Endless have brought upon the galaxy. So they manufactured a concrete body with a neutronium casing, almost too heavy to exist, almost impossible to destroy. They filled this perfect casing with a mixture of Endless organs, virtual machinery and let dust flow as its blood. Then the virtuals copied the best parts of the most virtuous and intelligent virtuals they could get a hold of and put the ghost in this shell. The downside of this perfect being, this designated leader of their new bright future, was that she was immovable at the times of war. So they entombed her in safety and her throne is the only link to the Aurigan Endless facilities that still work. Though she cannot leave her tomb, she can use her virtual abilities to control all technology that is active and within her range of communications. To her, any database of the Endless holds no secret. To her, all the Endless are no gods, they are lesser beings that abandoned her, left her, that she feels an incredible urge to purge and to destroy. All but her twin...

The Unspoken was the second and final experiment. When the war drew closer, when the final calamity befell Auriga, the rogue researchers in their desperation for their goals built the antithesis to the Eternal Queen. Her twin, her inversion, her guardian. They programmed a batch of dust to fuse the bodies of the concrete and the minds of the virtuals, they gave their lives, their blood, their very beings. They sacrificed to create the demon to fulfill their dying curse.

He has no name.

He slept until the queen awakened him.

He is of many minds.

But he is determined.

Determined to destroy the gods.

To lead all who are not tainted by the Endless.

To bring them to their destiny:

In servitude to the Eternal Queen, bring about the Eternal End of the blasphemers who dare call themselves Endless in mockery of the one truth.

ALL things must end.

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MANoob

Newcomer

MANoob

Newcomer

11 years ago

Sep 25, 2014, 6:32:57 PM

I think I have a more mechanically interesting idea that may or may not make sense lore wise. I vaguely remember smth in the cultist lore mentioning that they are ruled by two entities, maybe someone who pays more attention to the lore stuff can confirm

. Why not mirror that and allow the cultist city be governed by two heroes simultaneously (this can be baked into the affinity making it a little bit more attractive)? Cultist heroes can then be toned down to be in line with everyone else (let them be the influence guys). This will be original and allow for a lot of interesting combos.

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Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

11 years ago

Sep 25, 2014, 3:02:29 PM

Razis wrote:
I think I came up with a really good solution, so I'll post it here.

Make Cultists hero faction tree skills (or one skill in particular, or some) based on number of cities you have in your empire. As in - you have one city/region? 100% same bonus as it is now. 4 regions/cities? 50% of the bonus. Really easy to implement, I think - if game keeps track of how many regions faction owns (I mean a number.)

This way it preserves the original functionality for the Cultists without any nerfs or modifications do faction itself, and stays in tune with their flavor when other factions choose to use their hero.

Better solutions:

1)Cultist Heroes are only available to Cultists

or

2) Cultist Hero FIDSI boost moved into the affinity itself, racials made more combat-centric

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Razis

Forgotten

Razis

Razis

Forgotten

11 years ago

Sep 25, 2014, 2:28:22 PM

I think I came up with a really good solution, so I'll post it here.

Make Cultists hero faction tree skills (or one skill in particular, or some) based on number of cities you have in your empire. As in - you have one city/region? 100% same bonus as it is now. 4 regions/cities? 50% of the bonus. Really easy to implement, I think - if game keeps track of how many regions faction owns (I mean a number.)

This way it preserves the original functionality for the Cultists without any nerfs or modifications do faction itself, and stays in tune with their flavor when other factions choose to use their hero.

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Razis

Forgotten

Razis

Razis

Forgotten

11 years ago

Sep 25, 2014, 2:21:26 PM

Phalnax811 wrote:
I really wish we could only hire heroes of our Faction only...or add neutral minor race heroes.

I really wish your wish doesn't come true.

I really like the fact that you can mix and match, and not be limited to only one "faction" hero skill tree per game. Creates better diversity.

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Mansen

Enthusiast

Mansen

Enthusiast

11 years ago

Sep 25, 2014, 11:19:31 AM

In that case you would have to give up on the storyline for at least one faction (Roving Clans) since they depend on other faction's heroes - Or of course rewrite the storyline a bit.

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drewwest

Mage

Check out my idea please: https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/ideas/684-hero-ships-should-use-player-colours

drewwest

Mage

11 years ago

Sep 25, 2014, 9:28:04 AM

I never liked that you could have heroes from other factions in ES and its even more the case with EL.

I never buy heroes from other factions, just one of the three unique ones. I would like to see and option so heroes are exclusively just from your race

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EcthelionHelm

United

-EC

EcthelionHelm

United

11 years ago

Sep 25, 2014, 5:09:50 AM

Vaulters heroes are actually pretty bad at science. They have 3 different science traits

+ science on anomaly : you are probably going to have 2 to 4 anomalies per city. The 4-8 extra science is pretty low

+ science on district : better, but still lacking. 5 to 8 districts gives 10 to 16 science. Pretty low for midgame

+ science on trade route - actually quite useful, but comes pretty late and vaulters have little other synergy with trade.

Cultists get +science/pop, and +% science, along with a bunch of other economic goodies.

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Denolven

Newcomer

Denolven

Newcomer

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 6:39:20 PM

I'm currently in a game after turn 300. Have my empire and most things look like they work out now, especially the new fighting system. Then I looked for a governor for my city and took a look at the new cultists. Couldn't believe what 'I saw: +3 per head production for everything, followed by +70% city bonus on everything, plus any capacities that the hero might have.

Now I don't want to jump to early conclusions here, but that looks really op. Every other faction has one specialty that gets buffed, and not all of them have 3x15% skills. But the Cultist heros have that for every resource, and even the middle tree is perfectly accessible for Inspirational Leader and Cold Operator.

So I wonder, did someone test this? Like actually comparing realistic numbers. Because somehow I can't believe that something of this magnitude slipped through reviews. The Cultist governor basically replaces every other hero by just giving massive bonuses to everything instead of decent bonuses to one thing. Unless I fail to see something.

smiley: confused

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Prometheusfire

Newcomer

Prometheusfire

Newcomer

11 years ago

Sep 25, 2014, 2:56:54 AM

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
Aren't Vaulter heroes better than Cultists for science victories?

I actually find the argent mages heroes more useful for science then vaulter heroes.

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Redriamne

Shifter

Redriamne

Shifter

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 11:31:42 PM

I agree. Makes no sense for the Cultists to have their heroes on the market. It would be better if a faction could only hire same faction heroes. They could introduce some neutral heroes to make for more variety but faction heroes should be faction specific and their gameplay should be concentrated around the particular faction.

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Hidrobyte

Old Timer

Hidrobyte

Old Timer

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 11:11:27 PM

For me it actually doesn't make sense, that other fractions can even get cultist heros. I mean storywise...

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godman85

Fanatic

godman85

Fanatic

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 10:33:02 PM

They just need to make the different heroes of each faction different in optimization. There is no reason all the vaulter heroes need to be the same lame duck. Hell, even in the story line has wildly different attitude and methods between the main hero and the additional hero you get later

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Hopit

Newcomer

Hopit

Newcomer

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 9:01:51 PM

Phalnax811 wrote:
I really wish we could only hire heroes of our Faction only...or add neutral minor race heroes.

Personally I only hire my faction heroes (or the 3 unique ones).

But yeah, cultist governor is insane, maxed out FIDS skills on one of them and I was making about 3000 food, 2000 dust, 2000 influence, 3000 industry and 4000 science.

That was a fun game.

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Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 8:44:24 PM

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
Aren't Vaulter heroes better than Cultists for science victories?

The FIDS/pop is superior to the straight science boost, and they get roughly the same science multiplier IIRC.

It's a wash, but the Cultist is pretty much better for everything else giving it a big edge for early game.

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VIPAnwyl

Chameleon

.

VIPAnwyl

Chameleon

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 8:38:24 PM

Aren't Vaulter heroes better than Cultists for science victories?

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Prometheusfire

Newcomer

Prometheusfire

Newcomer

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 8:32:52 PM

good lord this would have made my science victory so much faster. I was avoiding them because they looked military fixated. Never have I been so wrong

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EcthelionHelm

United

-EC

EcthelionHelm

United

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 8:24:17 PM

Cultists are certainly the best economic heroes. Extra fids / pop is great early, and they have good access to %science, %dust, and %all.

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Phalnax811

Newcomer

Phalnax811

Newcomer

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 7:40:17 PM

Autocthon wrote:
They're about as broken as they look. It's theoretically because a Cultist faction really needs those bonuses due to poor expansion potential, but when the unit is available for everyone it's an issue.

I really wish we could only hire heroes of our Faction only...or add neutral minor race heroes.

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Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 6:49:53 PM

Solution: Give cultists a buff on their affinity and a nerf on their heroes.

"Cultsit Heroes on Empire grant +X% bonus to all FIDS and Influence per level" or something. Cultists get a generalist hero (keep flat bonuses or something) and they don't break FIDs everywhere else.

Though the lack of non-population flat bonuses actually makes Cultist governors kind of rough early on compared to other heroes that grant those bonuses.

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MomoOG

Newcomer

MomoOG

Newcomer

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 6:43:25 PM

I never liked the idea that you can buy heroes from other factions.. It just leads to broken combinations like the one you are describing. Cultist hero is supposed to make for an amazing general for the cultist because they only get one city. It becomes completely broken when the other factions start sticking them on all of their cities.

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Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

Autochthon

Vodyani Sower

11 years ago

Sep 24, 2014, 6:41:10 PM

They're about as broken as they look. It's theoretically because a Cultist faction really needs those bonuses due to poor expansion potential, but when the unit is available for everyone it's an issue.

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