I'd say, for the cavalry, heal 50% of damage dealt each attack - 0 damage, 0 health gained - critical damage, lots of health gained

10 is too high a number. If you try to build up to 10 before doing something major like attacking you will lose. 6 is a better number to start rolling (or even sooner), as I said it is better to capture those fat AI cities that are already built and populated. Your first few cities are just there to give you your starting armies and tech.

Honestly, you really need to focus extremely on dust. It might sound obvious, but it really is true. While other factions can benefit greatly from using other heroes as governors, you are best to stick with a Broken Lord hero for each city, and make sure that each city is in a highly lucrative (dust) place. You have the dust to buy as many heroes as possible, so buy the heroes you need as soon as you can, even if you don't technically need them yet. (That said, having one city as a research outpost with an Ardent Mages governor does help alot...)



They can be played tall or wide. If you play wide, make sure to spam trade early on, it will stack with all +% dust improvements and skills on your heroes. If you play tall, make sure that each city is really in the best spot possible - don't settle for less! Unlke other factions, you can afford to scout around a bit for perfect spots, as you can easily power level a city until it is productive.



They also have much less dependencies on economy techs. You really don't need any of the production techs, and obviously no food techs, which opens up a lot of other tech choices, such as military, equipment and science techs (and of course all the dust and marketplace techs). They also have a lesser need for critical luxuries, such as all the food luxuries and Titan bones.



They really are hurt much less in winter than most other factions, so in the long run you can gain an advantage over other players.



They can gain more strategic resources with their governors, so be sure to capitilize on equipment!



However, all said, you really should be playing a bit more warlike (or at least plan to be warlike at some time). Gaining large-pop cities is extremely advantageous, since with the rebalancing since the alpha it doesn't hurt your other cities that much (in terms of dust to buyout a new pop) after you have conquered a Cultist or tall Necro city. I have also found the cavalry very useful, since they actually have quite some weapon options - you can get either a stun, or cavalry slayer, or range slayer (I think). In my last game I had a number of different cavalry designs, depending on who I was fighting. And yeah, healing with dust is amazing, since your units have trouble dying, you will probably play large battles as a series of skirmishes, where you will start each new round fully healed.

I'm playing BL right now and honestly, while the game is going well, they're probably weaker than at least both the Necrophages and the Vaulters. Stalwarts are much weaker than Necrodrones and Marines and don't start shining until you add Dust Bishops into your armies. The gold population growth mechanic can give new cities an amazing kick start, but the Necro food stockpiles can create a similar effect and eventually food based city growth far surpasses the BL gold growth.



Because of this I feel like BLs are forced into aggressive strategies in order to not fall behind, yet their early armies are kind of lackluster. They also don't have any amazing unique strengths like Vaulter teleportation.

Vaulters teleportation is probably overpowered, so i would not take it as a reference.



That being said with my broken lord game at one point i was making so much dust that I was buying whole armies everyturn, right in the city close to my target enemy. It got to the point where I hit the limit where you can only spawn / rush buy 8 units in a city per turn because it can't hold any more. (I was fighting an AI on endless that snowballed and controlled half the map, so even with healing I had to keep spamming units to flood its territories.)



So yeah it's not teleportation, but it's damn close when you can buy units in the city you just took and keep pushing forward.

DrakenKin wrote:
Vaulters teleportation is probably overpowered, so i would not take it as a reference.



That being said with my broken lord game at one point i was making so much dust that I was buying whole armies everyturn, right in the city close to my target enemy. It got to the point where I hit the limit where you can only spawn / rush buy 8 units in a city per turn because it can't hold any more. (I was fighting an AI on endless that snowballed and controlled half the map, so even with healing I had to keep spamming units to flood its territories.)



So yeah it's not teleportation, but it's damn close when you can buy units in the city you just took and keep pushing forward.

The thing is, every other faction can do this as well. Heck, I won an economic victory with Necrophages even though I wasn't even trying. BLs get a bonus to dust production but other factions can build larger cities, which closes the gap and eventually reverses it. Also, BLs start with the L1 armor tech, which is completely useless and only serves to slow down later research.

Leiska wrote:
BLs get a bonus to dust production but other factions can build larger cities, which closes the gap and eventually reverses it.

I haven't played with all the factions yet, can anyone else buy a borough every turn?

Just won a game on endless with them, around turn 130 from a wonder victory.

I started building the wonder on turn 115 in a size 10 city, which had around 100 industry.

15 turn later the city was size 40 and producing 2000 industry every turn.

That's the power of dust .



Broken lords may be the strongest faction at the very end of the game (probably when this is probably over anyway), but they don't shine at the beginning.

Their main quest is the worst of any faction I have played so far.

Researching 12 technologies on era 1 is a pain in the ass, especially when you don't have the food technology.

Ulto wrote:
Just won a game on endless with them, around turn 130 from a wonder victory.

I started building the wonder on turn 115 in a size 10 city, which had around 100 industry.

15 turn later the city was size 40 and producing 2000 industry every turn.

That's the power of dust .



Broken lords may be the strongest faction at the very end of the game (probably when this is probably over anyway), but they don't shine at the beginning.

Their main quest is the worst of any faction I have played so far.

Researching 12 technologies on era 1 is a pain in the ass, especially when you don't have the food technology.

them and the cultists. Once the cultists get past 10 minors assimilated, the game starts snowballing out of control

JetJaguar wrote:
A formal analysis of "if it's ever worth buying a 7th citizen" would be interesting. that 7th citizen is extremely expensive, so you're probably right.

I'm trying to remember what the 7th pop on my cities cost last time I played. I know I was getting 4k dust a turn by the time I was worrying about it though. Pretty sure it was like 2k dust, with a dozen cities.



I was kind've just bullying some poor AI who I'd gutted economically so I could play around with my Broken Lords.



I do know that I like to get to at least 10 pop in my main city, to complete a triangle. It's not that expensive.

It could be just me, but I just love the backstory of the Broken Lords and how their units/heroes look.



Their latest hero is awesome.

loam wrote:
I haven't played with all the factions yet, can anyone else buy a borough every turn?

Yes. :P







In all seriousness, though, sure, you buy a borough to your capital every turn, but if you expanded aggressively, your city growth is going to remain stagnant for a very long time while food based races snowball hard off that.

DrakenKin wrote:
10 is too high a number. If you try to build up to 10 before doing something major like attacking you will lose. 6 is a better number to start rolling (or even sooner), as I said it is better to capture those fat AI cities that are already built and populated. Your first few cities are just there to give you your starting armies and tech.

Never said I waited for the pop before doing anything.

godman85 wrote:
them and the cultists. Once the cultists get past 10 minors assimilated, the game starts snowballing out of control

The cultists can become unstoppable as soon as you capture your first village and 7 free tiles, which can happen as soon as turn 7.

Leiska wrote:
Yes. :P







In all seriousness, though, sure, you buy a borough to your capital every turn, but if you expanded aggressively, your city growth is going to remain stagnant for a very long time while food based races snowball hard off that.

I'm not sure about that but I haven't played enough yet to really comment on the balance of everything, I was more just counter exampling the people who said BL can't build large cities. Just for the sake of argument though I don't understand your picture exactly: how do you buy a borough every turn if your population timer says 5 turns? Wouldn't that be a borough every 10 turns? I played the cultists and can't think of what would do it.

loam wrote:
I'm not sure about that but I haven't played enough yet to really comment on the balance of everything, I was more just counter exampling the people who said BL can't build large cities. Just for the sake of argument though I don't understand your picture exactly: how do you buy a borough every turn if your population timer says 5 turns? Wouldn't that be a borough every 10 turns? I played the cultists and can't think of what would do it.

I thin JetJaguar didn't realize how the BL changed since the patch.

loam wrote:
I'm not sure about that but I haven't played enough yet to really comment on the balance of everything, I was more just counter exampling the people who said BL can't build large cities. Just for the sake of argument though I don't understand your picture exactly: how do you buy a borough every turn if your population timer says 5 turns? Wouldn't that be a borough every 10 turns? I played the cultists and can't think of what would do it.

It's 1/5 turns because all villagers are on production. If I put them on food it becomes basically 1/turn. Also, that was a custom Cultist faction with the Necrophage trait that lets you build a borough for each pop.

I'm playing my first game as The Broken Lords and it isn't going well. In my previous games as The Wild Walkers and Ardent Mages, I've been decently challenged through-out most of the games (thanks to using VieuxChat's AI mod and a few modding tweaks of my own); but I came back and won, usually thanks to a conquering spree during the late game (impossible difficulty combined with the AI mod and my tweaks made earlier conquest impossible).



but in my current game as The Broken Lords, it's hard to imagine ever making a come-back.



What are the real strengths of this faction? I know about the instant healing, but that seems to be about it. When I think of what the other factions can do, I'm left wondering what The Broken Lords have to compete.



So what are the advantages of The Broken Lords that I've missed? Thanks in advance.

bobthe wrote:
Turtling is definitely not their only option. I've played them maybe half a dozen times so far and I do best when I am aggressive with them. Use their insta-healing to your advantage early on.



I also have never in all my games with them paid for a citizen above the 6th. All my starting cities end up at 6 and all the cities I take over sit at whatever they are when I capture them (unless they are under 6 then I buy up to 6). It just seems more cost-effective at that point to buy buildings instead of more citizens, but I haven't done a formal analysis. I just know I do well with this strategy. The downside is that your city size is small and you don't get level 2 districts, but capturing a few 15+ population cities is so much easier than buying up to that level.

A formal analysis of "if it's ever worth buying a 7th citizen" would be interesting. that 7th citizen is extremely expensive, so you're probably right.

Turtling is definitely not their only option. I've played them maybe half a dozen times so far and I do best when I am aggressive with them. Use their insta-healing to your advantage early on.



I also have never in all my games with them paid for a citizen above the 6th. All my starting cities end up at 6 and all the cities I take over sit at whatever they are when I capture them (unless they are under 6 then I buy up to 6). It just seems more cost-effective at that point to buy buildings instead of more citizens, but I haven't done a formal analysis. I just know I do well with this strategy. The downside is that your city size is small and you don't get level 2 districts, but capturing a few 15+ population cities is so much easier than buying up to that level.

Personally, I play with AI, which means that I'm more concerned with factions being fun than good. The greatest thing about Broken Lords is gameplay variety relative to other factions, and personally I think that's pretty OP

myrec wrote:
Ryders are weak, cause they "healing" is like 1 HP per level per attack. So at max level it is 10 HP per attack. TOO LOW. I hope they will fix it to something like 30 HP per level per attack. Then they will become force to be afraid of. Their best thing is they can carry stun weapon. No other cavalry can do that. It's insane if you give him high movement and high initiative. They will go first run and stun most important target. And if their healing will work they will always will heal from attacks of weaker units.



I have to admit I love Broken Lords and I cannot wait for Amplitude to fix them. I don't mean mods or so. I want official fix.

Because haling 50% of life every attack wouldn't be broken. If it was a flat 10% of life at all levels it would be fine.

I am not sure they are broken to be honest... They have a big strength and a big weakness, that is all. You have to adapt your play to them. The only way I can see them as broken is if you start away from dust tiles and have to waste many turns finding some, it can be a rough start. Other than that they start slow and pick up speed at mid game, and that will be your moment to move / attack / get big.



However there is one thing, I heard that their total points for their faction don't add up to the full number. That might need to get fixed.

Ryders are weak, cause they "healing" is like 1 HP per level per attack. So at max level it is 10 HP per attack. TOO LOW. I hope they will fix it to something like 30 HP per level per attack. Then they will become force to be afraid of. Their best thing is they can carry stun weapon. No other cavalry can do that. It's insane if you give him high movement and high initiative. They will go first run and stun most important target. And if their healing will work they will always will heal from attacks of weaker units.



I have to admit I love Broken Lords and I cannot wait for Amplitude to fix them. I don't mean mods or so. I want official fix.

Their food/dust farming rates can go nuts. Coastal + river tiles can get quite carried away very early on.



My advice for a stronger start is to 'hot swap' your starting hero about - have them spend quite a lot of time in town. The resource upgrades for them (T1 = +dust from rivers, T2 = +dust from dust tiles - up to an extra 3) can get really quite insane. I tend to prioritise getting a ranged hero to lead my army and turn the starting guy into a full time city leader.





One thing I really like is being able to insta-grow new cities. Last night I founded my second city and bought it up to size 4 on the same turn. Gets really silly.



IMO, a huge mid-later game bonus is being able to treat food (dust) stockpiling at an empire wide level. It's effectively moves food to a national mechanic rather than local to the city.



It's entirely possible to stick cities into places with low dust but huge production or research potential and get them up to speed in very short order...

Healing with dust might seem small, but it is very powerful. No one can go back to full health every battle like the broken lords. If you like running with a small expert army this is the faction for you.



Compare them to the necros for example, necros can't heal as efficiently, meaning they have to spam units as they lose and replace them to keep the aggression going. Broken lords on the other hand can make a couple of armies and take the whole map with them. As for growth, you don't need to buy workers as much when you are taking the superbuff AIs cities that are already fully built and populated. You just need to get by early game until you go on the offensive.



As for the bishops they are amazing. I use what I call the lotus formation : One bishop (preferably on high ground) surrounded by 5 melee units on "hold your ground" formation so nobody can attack him except 1 enemy (you can completely surround him but that would be AI abuse as it can't handle it and some times it will just stand there and do nothing because the bishop will be their priority and they can't get to him). With 5 units around him (even without high ground) he gets big bonuses to attack through morale (and morale goes up the more friendly units are next to you), so he can hit and heal every turn. Even if not all your units are in a position to attack, the bonuses from morale and healing makes it so you can outlive the enemy and win the battle with little to no losses.

JetJaguar wrote:
Researching them now. Thanks



their base rating for both attack and initiative of 6 had me concerned

They scale up nice. Make sure you also equip them, and keep them in the back.

Nasarog wrote:
Non of the support units are good at first... except the dust bishops. Basically they heal adjacent units by taking life out of enemy units with a range of 3 I believe. Think about that for a second. As they get stronger, they siphon more life out of the enemy units to dispense to yours (multiples) and they become more resilient.



Like that? I know I did.

Researching them now. Thanks



their base rating for both attack and initiative of 6 had me concerned

JetJaguar wrote:
I looked at the Dust Bishop base stats and they don't seem very good. What am I missing? Thanks again

Non of the support units are good at first... except the dust bishops. Basically they heal adjacent units by taking life out of enemy units with a range of 3 I believe. Think about that for a second. As they get stronger, they siphon more life out of the enemy units to dispense to yours (multiples) and they become more resilient.



Like that? I know I did.

I looked at the Dust Bishop base stats and they don't seem very good. What am I missing? Thanks again

JetJaguar wrote:
So they're a good faction to 'turtle' with? at least for the first half of the game? Thanks in advance

Yea. I played maybe a dozen games with them before moving on to the Necrophages. Of the dozen, the only ones I won was through extensive use of the turtle method. Maybe I'm a conservative player, but I'm now learning the Necrophages, and I'm just going buck wild with aggression, and it work for the Necros, it didn't for the Broekn Lords. the Cavalry unit is absolutely useless (to me at least).

Nasarog wrote:
Yes, with the new population rebalance, they are good for growing tall. 3-4 cities can carry the game. An upgraded dust bishop is boss. Insta healing your units in enemy territory is boss... but you know that. Not having a food crutch can really help in early and mid game during winter. The have a lot to tech that helps money grow, especially if you do the main quest.

So they're a good faction to 'turtle' with? at least for the first half of the game? Thanks in advance

Yes, with the new population rebalance, they are good for growing tall. 3-4 cities can carry the game. An upgraded dust bishop is boss. Insta healing your units in enemy territory is boss... but you know that. Not having a food crutch can really help in early and mid game during winter. The have a lot to tech that helps money grow, especially if you do the main quest.