Hello!

I would add that it's a little bit strange that you can gain resources from fortresses without learning special technologies. As It was said, there is too much imbalance between the land and the ocean.

We're not ready to commit to a date yet, but it might be anywhere from end of next week (if the fixes we have put in our test builds work) to end of the month (if they require more worldgen attention before working).

Thanks for your patience!

KPEMEHb wrote:

land strategics are similar to pre-Tempest normal, land luxuries still very rare (despite abundant settings, maybe i was unlucky).

I don't think you were unlucky at all.

In my last game, I had around 6 regions, but only one of them had Glasssteel.

OK, my Titanium output was quite decent, but still ...

I have two slightly conflicting cases to report here. Based of 3 games. So I think balancing should be detailed and careful.

1. Normal sized map, 6 players, 4 continents, normal resources settings - fortresses have 1-3 facilities, land resources are quite scarce but not super terrible (perhaps I was lucky ).

2. Normal size map, 6 players, 5-8 continents, abundant resource settings - fortresses have lots of facilities, land strategics are similar to pre-Tempest normal, land luxuries still very rare (despite abundant settings, maybe i was unlucky).

3. Small size map, 4 players, 4 continents, abundant resources - fortresses have 0-1 facilities (this is the other side of the spectrum here and not much fun either), land resources kinda similar to pre-Tempest normal, maybe a bit more. This is the most recent game, so I wonder if there was a ninja patch to re-balance this. 

No land resources is bad, lots of fortresses without any facilities is also not so good. Perhaps, enforce minimum of at least 1 facility per fortress?

KnightofPhoenix wrote:

Agreed completely. This is by far the most negative thing about the expansion.  It becomes even worse when resources are set on 'rare.'

This is the problem I encounter as well.  I always play on Hard World Difficulty and resources are scarce.  Luxury resources seem almost non-existent.

SO glad I found this thread,  I was just about to post some mild disappointment with sea vs land resources.

Sometimes I like to play with World setting of "Hard" - when I try this with new expansion,  I am shocked to see how few resources there are on land and how bountiful the sea is.   I makes for a *very* difficult game if you are late to field a good navy.

So please,   when you do rebalance,  make sure to test with different World difficulties too.   :)

Thanks guys!   Love this game.

Kaboomer wrote:

There is still a major balance issue that we haven't managed to fix in time, clearly. We agree with that. Oceans still get too many of the world resources currently. We keep working on reducing this proportion, even if it means a lower average number of facilities per fortress.

Good, good, so long as something is being done.

I don't think outright reducing the number of facilities is the answer, though. Having a ton of land and sea resources would be fine.  Alternately, fill the fortresses with those rarer, special facilities. Dust drainers, stockpile factories, maybe come up with some new ones. Those are a lot more interesting that slightly damp extractors anyway

@ Kaboomer

I suggest having the ratio of land/see ressources be determined by land/sea ratio in map setting.

A map with 60% land should at least have 60% of resources on land.

Alternatively, hard cap fortress ressources to 30% of global pool.

Been playing Tempest for a bit now, and I've noticed there's now less resources on land. I'm making land-based empires the same size as I did pre-Tempest and finding not even half the strategics and boosters I was before. Plenty out at sea, but nothing on land. This could just be bad luck, it's happened before, but is anyone else noticing this? 

If the sea fortresses are getting their resources by stripping them from the land, this is a pretty big issue. Like an expansion-killing issue. Going out to sea and fighting over fortresses is cool and all, but doing so should be a strategic choice, not an arbitrary necessity.

There is still a major balance issue that we haven't managed to fix in time, clearly. We agree with that. Oceans still get too many of the world resources currently. We keep working on reducing this proportion, even if it means a lower average number of facilities per fortress.

I was playing Morgawr and my empire was utter garbage, but I owned ALL the sea. I funnelled the +20 (+50 for some) of every resource I was making per turn into the Cultist faction my friend was playing as and let him dominate the land. The toatal sea resources were never meant to go to only one faction... But by the time the AI even ventures out to the oceans you can own 2/3's or more and be making asstons of resources without even having to research extractors. Ocean too op.

i registered just to add my agreement to the subject.   i like to play with rare strategy/luxury resources in the world generator.  post tempest, nearly all the resources are located in the sea.  this is not well balanced.

I'm confident that they will fix it, though I'm not sure how.

But as of now, Tempest isn't really playable for me, it disrupts the game the way I've been playing it. I'm saying that while still appreciating the sheer amount of content we got.

Tempest is imo the best expansion, but it needs urgent fixes and balancing.

I had hoped they'd fix this for release, but apparently not.

Right now, the oceans feel too resource rich, the land outright starved.

The ideal solution would, of course, be a ratio that can be customized during game setup.

I agree. Zakuzelo describe the system exactely how it is.

It needs to be changed. We are FORCED to go to sea. But some player don't want. I think most players don't actually love the sea situation, because they got impression they are forced to go to sea. It's not a bonus, it's not a dangerous land. It's just something they have to worry. That's very bad for the fun.

Before, in land, we generaly have one ressource extractor of level 1 per region. At least one titanium for exemple. We could find sometimes 2-3 or 4 extractors of level 1.

But now, it's rare to find one extractor, really. Two further more.

My suggestions to improve the situation

Create game options, at the creation of the game, for the players :

- Option 1 : Ressources are distribued as it is now (same system).
- Option 2 : There is the same ressources in land than before. There are too ressources extractors in the sea, but it's cumulative, not a ratio (there will be some ressources in the game, so more boosters, elites units etc.).

- Option 3 : The ratio of ressources is choosed by the players. You can have 50 % land 50 % sea, but the player can choose that 80 % of ressources will be on the land, for exemple.

So glad others are in agreement on this! 

The resource distribution is terrible, and it pigeonholes the game waaay too much. 

The Morgawr AI/Players seem to be happy though, as it allows them to dominate the game by forcing others to fight each other on land while they focus on the sea. 

Don't know if the devs tested this, but they do realize that by making extremely small continents with scarce resources, they effectively destroyed the great "experiment" that was the Allayi Skyfin. 

It is worthless now. 

The Cultist were said to have been nerfed by this patch, but I didn't realize by how much until seeing what the ocean regions were like in comparison to the land. 

It seems that, as long as you are race that cannot expand quickly on land and then into the sea, you are virtually doomed to obscurity. 

Jojo_Fr wrote:

I agree with you : there should be more ressources on land.

The problem it's : the devs want to make the sea a feature what players must not ignore. So they decided to augment the ratio of ressources on the sea.

If they purely increase the ressources on land, the total ressources land + sea will be too high.

Anyway, I think in land there should be +20 % more ressources. And, in sea, a -20 % ressources may be replaced by others bonus (as more often super factories : influence, dust, or simply more science/industry/food reserves).

Making the sea outright mandatory is a terrible idea, though. Making any side field of play mandatory in any 4x game is a terrible idea. No matter what sort of game a player's playing, no matter what victory condition or empire they're working towards, they NEED to build a fleet and fight over the sea or be starved for resources. How is taking away player choice in a strategy game a good idea?

It'd wouldn't be outlandish at all to have land resources stay the way they were pre-Tempest either. It takes a lot of time, effort, and resources to capture and hold sea regions, and every tier of ship equipment past the first requires plenty of two different strategics. So even if you have plenty of resources on land, it's not like you can just idly fling some boats into the sea for free loot, you have to work for it. 

If an empire is strong enough to take and hold both a vast land empire and a huge stretch of sea, then they deserve to have tons of resources.