I Don't Make Boroughs - Too Much of A Happiness Hit - Am I Wrong & Why? - Endless Legend

I Don't Make Boroughs - Too Much of A Happiness Hit - Am I Wrong & Why?

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johnyoga

Newcomer

johnyoga

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 13, 2015, 3:11:12 PM

Hello Folks,

I used to bolt on boroughs, but they create way too much of a happiness hit. Is there an efficient manner to add them to a city, where you either don't lose happiness or even start gaining happiness? Or, just don't add them, and go down an alternative path for city expansion (e.g. pile on the food)?

Thanks for any insight.

Regards,

Marc

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VIPThe-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

Shifter

VIPThe-Cat-o-Nine-Tales

Shifter

10 years ago

Sep 13, 2015, 4:23:20 PM

The most efficient city layout is a triangle. If I recall the numbers correctly, a triangle composed of the city center and 5 boroughs will only cause -5 Approval (-50 Approval from constructing 5 boroughs, +45 Approval from having 3 upgraded districts in the center).

Unless I really need a couple of extra tiles of FIDSI in a city, I often build only one extra borough, then wait until I have 8 to 10 population, so I can build them all in quick succession to get upgraded boroughs.

There's a very old thread about it here: /#/endless-legend/forum/9-tips-tricks/thread/3824-building-big-efficient-cities-borough-streets-leveling-districts

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johnyoga

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johnyoga

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 13, 2015, 4:46:04 PM

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:
The most efficient city layout is a triangle. If I recall the numbers correctly, a triangle composed of the city center and 5 boroughs will only cause -5 Approval (-50 Approval from constructing 5 boroughs, +45 Approval from having 3 upgraded districts in the center).

Unless I really need a couple of extra tiles of FIDSI in a city, I often build only one extra borough, then wait until I have 8 to 10 population, so I can build them all in quick succession to get upgraded boroughs.

There's a very old thread about it here: /#/endless-legend/forum/9-tips-tricks/thread/3824-building-big-efficient-cities-borough-streets-leveling-districts

Thank you for your comment and link, Cat.

I really like your idea of waiting for 8-10 population before bolting on boroughs, as you will be able to bolt them on quickly, without much time in negative happiness territory....And, by that time, you'd probably already have enough techs and/or resources to mitigate the happiness hit.

Like it...good idea!

Regards,

Marc

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BPrado

Newcomer

BPrado

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 13, 2015, 9:15:09 PM

I think that more important than finding one way that always seems best is understanding why such way works in the first place. In practice, it´s impossible to take always the exact same action but if you understand the logic behind it, you can make analogous decisions. You need districts to increase the yielding of a city, especially of food when it´s on tiles, but changing from a positive approval to a neutral approval will impact at least on food, industry and science in your entire empire. It´s easy to offset that when your "new district" is a city with 7 new tiles of exploration; when you´re adding only 3 tiles and removing food from one, though, either those tiles must be damn good/important, or your approval can´t change into a neutral/bad status.

That means I would recommend to expand while on neutral->neutral, happy->happy, even fervent->happy of course, but if you´re going happy->neutral, you should only do it for strategic reasons.

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natev

Newcomer

natev

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 13, 2015, 9:33:47 PM

You never make any boroughs?

Consider a single district city. Making a borough increases its exploitation range from 7 tiles to 10 tiles-- let's just call it 50% improvement. Meanwhile, even if the -10 hit from a new district leads to dropping from happy->content and/or content-unhappy in both city approval and empire approval, all that you lose is 15% of FIDS. Additionally, the new district provides 1 influence (+50%), which is not affected by approval, and additional fortification.

Even without what previous posters have stated about level 2 districts, your first borough tends to be an investment on par with tier 2 improvements.

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SpanishMatlock

Newcomer

SpanishMatlock

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 14, 2015, 6:25:59 AM

Like all EL questions the correct answer is "who are you"?

Cultists? Districts are life.

Drakken? Districts are influence and fortification. They're the difference between a one turn surprise strike and a declaration of peace.

Other races do just fine with a single district for a long time. Forums superstar natev is prone to engulfing entire deserts with single tile BL cities,

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abmpicoli

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abmpicoli

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 14, 2015, 8:19:44 PM

I would like to add that there are some anomalies that give +10 happiness... So they counteract completely the happiness loss.

Another thing to add is that a district have a happiness bonus of +15 when they level up, so they counteract the initial loss... So there are cases (when you "close the triangle") that the end effect is that your happiness loss is almost negligible...

I like to think that regarding expansion with boroughs there are "opening expansions" and "closing expansions": an opening expansion is one that doesn't promote any tile to lvl 2. They cause -10 happiness... A "closing" expansion is one that promotes a tile to lvl2, this gives, as a simple rule, +5 happiness: -10 from the new tile, plus a +15 from promoting a tile to lvl 2.

Notice that to choose to make boroughs become more and more interesting if you have specific buildings that increase exploitation income... If a new exploitation starts giving 10 dust, 7 prodution, and so on, it becomes more and more savvy to build new boroughs. And a smart layout can keep happiness loss in check. Another point is that if you have enough luxury resources to keep your empire at fervent all the time, you don't even need to bother with the happiness issue...

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johnyoga

Newcomer

johnyoga

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 15, 2015, 3:53:20 AM

Thank you everyone for chipping in and commenting. I appreciate it.

Regards,

Marc

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JErosion

Newcomer

JErosion

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 15, 2015, 5:29:57 AM

abmpicoli wrote:
I would like to add that there are some anomalies that give +10 happiness... So they counteract completely the happiness loss.

Another thing to add is that a district have a happiness bonus of +15 when they level up, so they counteract the initial loss... So there are cases (when you "close the triangle") that the end effect is that your happiness loss is almost negligible...

uh there are anomalies that do that. A bunch of them in fact. http://endlesslegend.gamepedia.com/Terrain has a full list and what they should look like, and if you want you can always increase the chance for anomalies in the world build settings

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Aatxe360

Chameleon Six

Aatxe360

Chameleon Six

10 years ago

Sep 16, 2015, 6:39:52 PM

Yeah, I usually plan on building cities near anomalies. Top priority anomalies are happiness, food, and science. The rest I can force my population to create.

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myrec

Old Timer

myrec

Old Timer

10 years ago

Sep 17, 2015, 8:46:28 AM

I just want to add that I usually keep cities at 2 districts, and then when I build "wonder" I build more districts to rise it to level 2 ASAP>> then I proceed to win the game with city pumping 350 industry each turn.

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bobthe

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bobthe

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 17, 2015, 11:22:49 PM

The triangle formation was mentioned but I don't think this is actually the most efficient. I believe the 2-by-x line is the most efficient. Once you "close the triangle" you are at an awkward place where your next borough does not promote any others to level 2. I also feel like the 2-by-x line gives you more options to angle off to grab an important tile that is worth breaking from the pattern for (e.g. one that gives +10 approval or a huge total FIDS bonus).

Having said that, you often have to work around obstacles, so the best formation for a given region is not always the same. It will always be a cost-effectiveness analysis of what you get for expanding versus the time/resource cost of doing so.

Personally I generally make a lot of boroughs and grab whatever approval research I need to in order to support it, but I try to be smart about when I expand a given city and how big I go. Gotta watch that approval.

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natev

Newcomer

natev

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 18, 2015, 3:57:53 AM

I find that once you "close the triangle," you don't need to promote any further boroughs to level 2.

However, I prefer the stick myself, largely because the number of level 2 districts granted by a triangle are overkill.

This might be flavored by the fact that my high population cities are always Cultist cities. When your goal is to start a Megapole at level 2 and to reach level 3 ASAP, and whatever odd boosters you've acquired will take you to 100% approval, even if you didn't get the Museum, the stick just works better.

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agamemnus

Newcomer

agamemnus

Newcomer

10 years ago

Sep 18, 2015, 5:04:32 AM

Wait a sec... do some factions/races not have progression beyond level 2? I was playing the... nature guys... it said no progression past level 2 in the description, and that was indeed the case.

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VIPGroo

Enthusiast Survivor

May the force of Auriga be with you, young Padawan !

VIPGroo

Enthusiast Survivor

10 years ago

Sep 18, 2015, 6:46:57 AM

@agamemnus

The only faction that can have lvl 3 ditricts is cultists. Anyone did say anything else.

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johnyoga

Newcomer

johnyoga

Newcomer

10 years ago

Oct 4, 2015, 11:06:58 AM

You guys are awesome!

Thank you for taking the time to explain this topic to me (and others).

Regards,

Marc

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