I been trying to archiv a science victory with Ardents as soon as possible, on fast speed, that could be done on multiplayer.



I absolutly try all vias possible. To reach the victory on turn 85-95.



My best record was at turn 104, but that was a lucky game, where i get 5 Haunts on assimilation. Without making musseum, or science institute.



I make 5 cities all governed by 5 ardenst heroes. My cities impulse was always Moonleaf, and situacional dust orchid.



I just want to know if it is possible to make a scientific victory viable on multiplayer!

I assume on fast speed?



Thought I'd see how fast Cult might be able to do it. After eliminating everybody else around turn 50, I stopped converting villages and went full science. 3 Haunts, 10 villages, not picked specifically for science or anything. Just stuck with my Cultist gov, thought he'd be fine. Turn 89, save attached.



This could almost certainly be sped up considerably. I didn't focus on science in my first 50 turns, just played as normal, and I basically froze expansion on turn 50, letting my Influence rot. I didn't engage in any tech trading and didn't even build the Center for Mineralogy until T3.
Cultists - Turn 89.zip

natev wrote:
I assume on fast speed?



Thought I'd see how fast Cult might be able to do it. After eliminating everybody else around turn 50, I stopped converting villages and went full science. 3 Haunts, 10 villages, not picked specifically for science or anything. Just stuck with my Cultist gov, thought he'd be fine. Turn 89, save attached.



This could almost certainly be sped up considerably. I didn't focus on science in my first 50 turns, just played as normal, and I basically froze expansion on turn 50, letting my Influence rot. I didn't engage in any tech trading and didn't even build the Center for Mineralogy until T3.

Yes, im basing on fast speed



I was thinking on making the rush without picking cultist, set the force of pillars on my favor to brust science on T1 then again holding pillars at T3 till end game.



I brust main quest to get a solid city to grab the Verda´s temple, this was fine at turn 40-50, but T5 feels so slow and T6 tech take like 9-8 turns to finish.



There is some guide or something to hold on this kind of victory??

natev wrote:
I assume on fast speed?



Thought I'd see how fast Cult might be able to do it. After eliminating everybody else around turn 50, I stopped converting villages and went full science. 3 Haunts, 10 villages, not picked specifically for science or anything. Just stuck with my Cultist gov, thought he'd be fine. Turn 89, save attached.



This could almost certainly be sped up considerably. I didn't focus on science in my first 50 turns, just played as normal, and I basically froze expansion on turn 50, letting my Influence rot. I didn't engage in any tech trading and didn't even build the Center for Mineralogy until T3.

So, after a long observation of your game, I focus on a new match, and i reach science victory in turn 94. -10 better than my best try. But I think i could beat your time in few more attempts



I will announce here my final ideals about my observations. This is an attempt to outline strategy about Ardent Mages and possible science + pillars + a good stand in a "fast speed" game[/B]



Ardent Mages - Viable Science on progres.



The following line up lead me to a Win on turn 94. Without using Moonleaf, without Haunts assimilation, and only main city building army.



- Focus on main city heavy industry production, i mean all "unique buildings" + Museum, if you can.



- Second city about heavy science production all "uniques" + Science legendary build, if you can.(turn 15-25)



- Third city. On dust, dont focus on heavy builds, just diplo plans and a few 1G+Population buildings...(turn 25-30)



- Four City, standing up with main quest requierement to make Verda´s on it. (Turn 35-45)



Here comes the tips:



- Dont rush laboratory is not necessary on early, you must grab it at T3 (tier 3 Era) or as soon as your 2º city has the complete buldings, then you queue "unique" science build there, and transfer all population to science when you get the building finished



- A track that tells you if you are going good, is turn 50, here you have to start making "1 turn reasearch" till you hit T6. IF YOU CANT GET 1 TURN TECH HERE OR YOU FIND IT HARD, SCIENCE VICTORY WILL BE ABOVE TURN 105-150 WARNING WARNING...



- Of course if you dont get Museum, moonleaf, dust orchid or Haunts (3 villages) you will be not able to get the victory in time. (I strongly recommend change to a offensive/hostigate strategy to get lands and territoty by invading others empires. We are seeking a 20% science brust or better to go ahead with a science program



- Pillars are essential at Era 1, you must have 1 at the start of the game, and you could refresh just once if you have good gold position. Then pillars come back at Era 3 after you research both pillars level upgrade, to get they at +5 science per tile. (here you can hold 3-5 pillars, always on your 2º city). Then pillars come stronger at Era 5 again with double research on level upgrade. (Here spam as many as you can, but beware with gold insufficiency) As 2º city lost pillars "slots" you start focus on your main city, that it will probably be too extended.



- Notice that in this strategy i did not go for the metropolis, cause i rather spend the titanium on science buildings that demand a lot after Era 2.



- You need to have a good control of Stock piles, and you have to understand the functionality of them. I reecomend grab some on market or produc stock of science on main city, to help you to reach "1 turn tech" above turn 45



- Grab on the market luxury resources while you can, this is obvious. They are not on the main plan cuase they are ocassional, and probably wont appear.



- Heroes on city must be "ardent mages", i have to get indeep here. I try double Ardent hero, gov. on 2º city, as soon as he reach 15% science booster. Then another ardent hero on 4º city, that would change to main city at turn 65-70 when I start placing pillars on it. (this is cause 4º cant produce the amount of science that a extended city with pillars on it can produce.





I hope it helps someone. I'll be trying to improve this particular strategy. I will be writing any changes around here.

Is the Ardent Mages the best faction for a science victory? Sure, their heroes are the best for science specialized cities, but the faction itself? I'd think Vaulters and maybe Cultists too are better optimized to rush for a science victory than the Ardent Mages. Whether it's unit rosters, city expansion, faction bonuses, etc, it just doesn't seem that the Ardent Mages as a faction is the best suited for a scientific victory rush despite it being advertised as their recommended victory type.

OwlRaider wrote:
Is the Ardent Mages the best faction for a science victory? Sure, their heroes are the best for science specialized cities, but the faction itself? I'd think Vaulters and maybe Cultists too are better optimized to rush for a science victory than the Ardent Mages. Whether it's unit rosters, city expansion, faction bonuses, etc, it just doesn't seem that the Ardent Mages as a faction is the best suited for a scientific victory rush despite it being advertised as their recommended victory type.

They are really good, but hard to manage cause they requieres expansion control, specific cities. Pillars are amazing at lvl 4 they give about +250 science on city if you set them right and your govern is on science.

OwlRaider wrote:
..and maybe Cultists too are better optimized to rush for a science victory than the Ardent Mages.

???



Eliminating everyone is not a scientific victory.

BPrado wrote:
???



Eliminating everyone is not a scientific victory.

I didn't mean the free science stockpiles from eliminating cities, though every city you do eliminate will obviously contribute to it. Also the fact that you're going for a peaceful victory doesn't stop the other factions from trying to kill you, in which case you might as well bring the fight to them when they initiate it which in turn will involve some eliminated(conquered) cities on your end. I meant the Cultist's level 3 districts in conjunction with the 1 super city setup which in turn makes for the cheapest possible empire plan and boosters in conjunction with having all 1 per empire and some wonders(if you win the races) all in the same city in conjunction with all the FIDSI from converted villages and more. But as I said, I was mostly aiming towards the Vaulters who I think are better suited for a scientific victory rush than the Ardent Mages, but the Cultist's myriad of advantages can easily be tailored towards it too, just not sure whether it's more efficient than the other 2 or not.

I comeback this thread alive, after another hard testings.



I try out Focus on a rush in AM quest, to grab +16science pillars as soon as possible.



Build 3 cities, 4º with AM quest requierement (place a pillar to get the "10 science need")



Heroes I use. Wayra Sigo, Strikes far. Zarcha Attinul and Nahla Al-Jazar (note these are not the best for a science composition). And Urol the Speaker, focus on science.

- I grab these heroes to make it more contingency, and not flawless way to win.



Wayra Sigo, can help really quick to brust 4º City build up and get ready to Verda´s temple in 5 o 6 Turns speeding the course of the mission.



TURN PHASE



- TURN 40. Found up 4º City.

- TURN 69. Reach of T6 Era.

- TURN 86. Archiv Science Win



CONTEMPLATIONS



- Main city stay at heavy industry production to pump army, till TURN 65-69 when i sit AM hero on the throne.



- My military score was at 20k at turn 50. I think this is ok for a multiplayer.



- Luxury resources were only moonleaf, grasslik, titan bones, pixie blood. And situational mission rewards.



- Pacified Villages, Bos and Dorgeshi. (notice that there arent haunts)



- Build up Auriga Museum(Turn 19), Metropolis (Turn 25), and the Science Legendary deed I dont remember the name (Turn 50-54). There is just a little trick with the big science institute, once you build past technologies cost less, you can set 1 past tech and then queue present tier tech. This will make a science accumulation. For example.

You produc "1500 science per turn" You need 2 turns to finish a present tier tech that cost 2000 science, instead of that, you queue past tech that cost 1000 science, so it come avaliable in 1 turn. After that turn, those 500 science leftover stack on the queue tech. Finally you get +500 bonus on next queue, and now the present tier tech need 1 turn to finish. Making 2 research in 2 turn, instead of 2 reaseach in 3 turns.





I will keep trying to make this better!