I am on-board with the idea of initiative but I feel when it comes to my army it is "operationally impaired".



Traditionally your infantry would march towards the enemy and your archers would fire volleys over them at the enemy and your cavalry would for the most part be used to flank the enemy and/or chase routed units and/or depending on the type as a shock troop.



Endless Legend 'initiative' turns that on it's head and in relation to my army I am not really seeing the logical aspects of this design decision. The scenario I often face is that all my units have higher initiative and will go before the enemy does. The initiative of my army is my hero then cavalry and then archers.





My archers, my dear dear archers who are not soft and squishy and are in fact extremely robust chappies, are last to shoot after my hero and the cavalry units. This makes no sense as my cavalry units will often take damage from a enemy unit that could have been dealt with by my arches.



The base initiative stats force this onto a player and I am aware I could through various gear etc change this but while I deliberately am holding back the cavalry initiative I am also not making them as effective as they could.



Cheers,



Capt. Teddy Bera

Melee attacks (from Calvary and Infantry) will remove the target's action so they can't move or attack. Ranged attacks do damage without counter attack, but the target still gets to act (move and attack).



It's not a bad idea to have high initiative melee units to pin your opponent down but if you have Ranged units that are so good that they can wipe out units without fear, why are you running Cavalry?

Propbuddha wrote:
Melee attacks (from Calvary and Infantry) will remove the target's action so they can't move or attack. Ranged attacks do damage without counter attack, but the target still gets to act (move and attack).



It's not a bad idea to have high initiative melee units to pin your opponent down but if you have Ranged units that are so good that they can wipe out units without fear, why are you running Cavalry?

And more importantly your high init calvary can lock down reinforcement spots/guardians/dangerous enemy units. Wars on won on locking down reinforcement spots.

The only thing that really bugs me about this is that having big initiative on units with sweep strike back is counter productive, as you will often be unable to move anywhere near frontline without attacking enemy thus wasting your only counter each turn.

Propbuddha wrote:
Melee attacks (from Calvary and Infantry) will remove the target's action so they can't move or attack. Ranged attacks do damage without counter attack, but the target still gets to act (move and attack).

I understand this however the issue is that although all my units will "go" before the enemy units all my non ranged units must go first.

Propbuddha wrote:
It's not a bad idea to have high initiative melee units to pin your opponent down but if you have Ranged units that are so good that they can wipe out units without fear, why are you running Cavalry?

Again I do understand this. As to whether my ranged units are so good, in some instances they were but even when they are not for a 1st phase in the 2nd phase when they could finish off an enemy unit I MUST send in my cavalry first, ridiculous.





A more sensible way would have been to say these units go before these enemy units and you can use them in any order you wish.

Capt.TeddyBear wrote:
Again I do understand this. As to whether my ranged units are so good, in some instances they were but even when they are not for a 1st phase in the 2nd phase when they could finish off an enemy unit I MUST send in my cavalry first, ridiculous.

I have at times been annoyed by the initiative system myself, but I really don#t see why you "MUST" send your cavalry in first if you are sure your archers will wipe out the enemy. If you don't need the cavalry to attack, you could order them to fall back.

The initiative system was implemented to counter-balance a more "traditional" turn-based combat system, because the game wasn't designed for massive losses, in my experience. It's possible, not to mention desirable, to see a unit last the entirety of a 2-4 hour game, and it's even possible to not suffer ANY losses for an entire war, if not a game, and becomes part of the steam-rolling dynamic that the game was actually built around.



Secondary tangent: What're you arming your ranged units with that they go after cav? And do you count support units as ranged? Paladian weapons are absolute murder in the hands of a ranged unit, while cav and infantry can prolly get away with glassteel, as by the time you get the blood red kill-bows, melee has largely become obsolete as a viable core for your armies. If you're doing things right, you form a small picket force of infantry/cav, or better yet Kazanji Daemons with axes surrounding a core of ranged/support units that you can use to concentrate the damage and maximize enemy losses. Then sweep the Daemons in mitigate to enemy's ability to do the same while causing heavy chain damage that forces the enemy to give up morale bonuses or die sooner.

TrollofReason wrote:
The initiative system was implemented to counter-balance a more "traditional" turn-based combat system, because the game wasn't designed for massive losses, in my experience. It's possible, not to mention desirable, to see a unit last the entirety of a 2-4 hour game, and it's even possible to not suffer ANY losses for an entire war, if not a game, and becomes part of the steam-rolling dynamic that the game was actually built around.



Secondary tangent: What're you arming your ranged units with that they go after cav? And do you count support units as ranged? Paladian weapons are absolute murder in the hands of a ranged unit, while cav and infantry can prolly get away with glassteel, as by the time you get the blood red kill-bows, melee has largely become obsolete as a viable core for your armies. If you're doing things right, you form a small picket force of infantry/cav, or better yet Kazanji Daemons with axes surrounding a core of ranged/support units that you can use to concentrate the damage and maximize enemy losses. Then sweep the Daemons in mitigate to enemy's ability to do the same while causing heavy chain damage that forces the enemy to give up morale bonuses or die sooner.

At the beginning and for a very long time the cavalry has a lot more initiative and no kit I have can close the gap at this time.



Uber archers with incredible armour makes my cavalry redundant and it is not until teir 2 or three that I bother with anything else, this is wrong.





I stand by my original assessment in that the initiative as in determining which unit of each apposing army go first is excellent, love it, but when it come to my army it is "operationally impaired".