Hi all,



There is a lot of interesting design decisions regarding combat mechanics but the unit characteristics are very puzzling especially when combined with 'initiative'. But as per the thread title the one that I have most difficulty with is Vaulter Marine ranged unit.



I have played the Vaulter's exclusively since getting the game about a month ago and well, who needs anything else for the most part.





The Vaulter Marine ranged unit is armored to the max, actually gets a bonus when at point blank range and to top it off (as with all ranged units, even at point blank range they get no retaliation. The last one is ridiculous.



Everything about this unit and ranged units in general is opposite to reality and common sense. They should be lightly armored and soft, they should be severely penalised when shooting close range and when right next to an enemy unit they should be counter attacked.





Good fiction has a basis in the real world and is relatable, the ranged units in Endless Legend is anything but.

The reason they get a bonus to close range is because they are equipped with crossbows (which also allows them to equip shields, except the Forgotten who have double crossbows). The same does not apply to bows, which have better attack / dmg but strip you of the ability to equip a shield.



Furthermore, ranged units do get penalized for being close to enemy units. They get -1 morale for every adjacent unit, which translated into a big malus for all their stats barring health and initiative.



The Vaulter marine is indeed relatively sturdy for a ranged unit (at the expense of initiative, attack, and damage), but the rest are not (except the Nameless Guards).

The fact that they don't trigger counter-attacks is arguably a weakness rather than a strength. If a unit counter-attacks, it loses its turn, which means it cannot move, use special actions like heals or buffs, or focus fire on its preferred target. Using high-initiative melee attackers to shut down your opponent's special units or prevent them from getting into better positions is actually pretty powerful.



Now, if the unit you are attacking is going to die before it would have taken a turn anyway, then yes, you'll be glad it doesn't get to counter. Also if you're fighting units with the "free counter" ability.



But counter-attacking is frequently to your disadvantage. I've been in plenty of battles where I would have loved it if my units would stop counter-attacking and follow their regular orders instead.

KnightofPhoenix wrote:
The reason they get a bonus to close range is because they are equipped with crossbows (which also allows them to equip shields, except the Forgotten who have double crossbows). The same does not apply to bows, which have better attack / dmg but strip you of the ability to equip a shield.

Hi Knight of Phoenix,



But when armed with a crossbow they do not get penalised on either range and/or distance accuracy and either way they still have same armour that my regular soldiers have!



Logically they should only shoot a distance of 2 at full and if they are to shoot a distance of 3 it should include a penalty. There should be no close range bonus as the bonus is having the shield for added protection.

KnightofPhoenix wrote:
Furthermore, ranged units do get penalized for being close to enemy units. They get -1 morale for every adjacent unit, which translated into a big malus for all their stats barring health and initiative.



The Vaulter marine is indeed relatively sturdy for a ranged unit (at the expense of initiative, attack, and damage), but the rest are not (except the Nameless Guards).

They make the Vaulter Dawn Officer redundant and when teamed with the Vaulter Titan they make short work of most enemy.





Cheers,



Capt. Teddy Bear

Antistone wrote:
The fact that they don't trigger counter-attacks is arguably a weakness rather than a strength. If a unit counter-attacks, it loses its turn, which means it cannot move, use special actions like heals or buffs, or focus fire on its preferred target. Using high-initiative melee attackers to shut down your opponent's special units or prevent them from getting into better positions is actually pretty powerful.



Now, if the unit you are attacking is going to die before it would have taken a turn anyway, then yes, you'll be glad it doesn't get to counter. Also if you're fighting units with the "free counter" ability.



But counter-attacking is frequently to your disadvantage. I've been in plenty of battles where I would have loved it if my units would stop counter-attacking and follow their regular orders instead.

Hi Antisone,



I see some merit in what you say but I would also counter with that this is dependent upon the enemy faced or in your army as some have powerful (some also have a free counter?) counter attacks that are circular or in depth.



Cheers,



Capt. Teddy Bear