For Endless Legend MkII can I suggest you drop the old start mechanics?

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Capt.TeddyBear

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Capt.TeddyBear

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9 years ago

Jan 24, 2016, 11:50:02 PM

With the presumption that there will be a Endless Legend MkII can I suggest, oh may I please sir? That you drop the old start mechanics and if you are going to give me a territory to setup my capital in could you please just allow me to see all the territory and allow me to settle anywhere?

I fail to see how the old and tired limited view and limited movement to start my new civilisation is in any way good.

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Valadeus

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Valadeus

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9 years ago

Jan 25, 2016, 2:16:32 AM

While I understand the premise of your proposal, information gathering (scouting) is an essential part of 4X Strategy games. The player who scouts wiser and makes better use of the information they gather (decision making, unit construction and equipping, etc) is rewarded because of it.

Even something as simple as scouting out your starting territory with your army units and determining where the best place to set your city is can have serious rewards or penalties. It's one of the ways the game rewards you for planning before acting.

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Antistone

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Antistone

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9 years ago

Jan 25, 2016, 4:57:55 AM

What do you mean by "all the territory"? Presumably you're not expecting to see the entire map before the game starts?

(You probably mean "region", but there have been games where I decided to found my first city outside my starting region...and I think it's worth wondering whether EL2 would even have "regions" in the same way as EL1.)

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VIPGroo

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VIPGroo

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9 years ago

Jan 25, 2016, 8:58:01 AM

I would prefer to not have such large dust-outcome the first five rounds. It regularly prevents me from settling outside the starting region. So I'm forced to found the capital in one-village-only region. This sucks a lot

Even it is in devs intension...

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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9 years ago

Jan 25, 2016, 10:01:42 AM

Avilyss wrote:
While I understand the premise of your proposal, information gathering (scouting) is an essential part of 4X Strategy games. The player who scouts wiser and makes better use of the information they gather (decision making, unit construction and equipping, etc) is rewarded because of it.

Even something as simple as scouting out your starting territory with your army units and determining where the best place to set your city is can have serious rewards or penalties. It's one of the ways the game rewards you for planning before acting.

That and exploration is a big X in 4X. And something that EL does well.

It's always a nice feeling, discovering a region with one golden tree next to a tree of life.

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ZenTractor

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ZenTractor

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9 years ago

Jan 25, 2016, 11:20:45 AM

KnightofPhoenix wrote:
That and exploration is a big X in 4X. And something that EL does well.

It's always a nice feeling, discovering a region with one golden tree next to a tree of life.

Fun fact: there is only ever one golden tree on the map.

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VIPicarus86

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VIPicarus86

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9 years ago

Jan 25, 2016, 11:57:33 AM

I believe that having to make the decision of settling on the 1st turn or trying to "waste" some dust / research / production in order to find a better position is great !

I honestly prefer this to CIV's way of giving you a good-enough starting position every time. But this is just my opinion.

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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9 years ago

Jan 25, 2016, 12:14:04 PM

ZenTractor wrote:
Fun fact: there is only ever one golden tree on the map.

Which makes finding it that much better lol

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Mystic_A

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Mystic_A

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9 years ago

Jan 25, 2016, 12:14:05 PM

Like others have already said, exploring, and making use of the random environment around you is a pretty big part of 4X games. So I don't think the devs will change that.

This does however bring up an interesting idea. I definitely wouldn't mind having a game mode where every player does get to pick their exact starting location. It doesn't seem like it would be that complicated to do, and it's always nice to have more options.

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lilyophelia

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lilyophelia

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9 years ago

Jan 25, 2016, 2:29:30 PM

I love it exactly as it is. That's just my personal vote.

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Willwhit

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Willwhit

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9 years ago

Jan 25, 2016, 4:49:17 PM

In my opinion, the current system is perfect and works great.

I also think it's quite early to discuss about an hypothetical EL2, as it's obviously not the right moment to drop a great game like this.

But you can still mod the game to make it fit your playstyle

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BPrado

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BPrado

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9 years ago

Jan 25, 2016, 6:00:05 PM

I´m with OP.

First, exploring is supposed to be a part of the game, but not a requirement for balance. Being placed inside a forest means you necessarily have to settle that because it takes 3 turns to move 6 tiles, and your starting units are ridiculously expensive. Not to mention the game completely lacks mechanisms to put people in appropriate sites.

Second, it makes no practical sense for you to own land you have never even set eyes upon. And it´s not just a claim, like "after I get there, no one can settle it" (like real treaties like Tordesilhas) - the moment you settle, all that land is yours and it´s done, you now just have to find out what you got in the land lottery. That´s a little ridiculous.

So, yes, please change this.

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natev

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natev

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9 years ago

Jan 26, 2016, 6:31:59 AM

There are potential half-measures.

I always like my first turn as RC, because my basic units can explore far enough before settling to seek out some good spots. And the iron necklace isn't as important, so if they can't retrofit where I settle, no problem, and the settler has enough move to take me to an adjacent region, if that's what I'd like.

Something similar could be done for any faction by giving them vision or movement bonuses, on their first turn only. If that's too arbitrary, vision bonuses on settlers could mean a lot, without meaning anything later in the game.

The reality is that even without dust expenditures, it would be pretty risky to delay settling. Losing even a single turn's tempo can turn into much, much more due to fixed minor spawn times, legendary buildings, and of course aggression. It wouldn't bother me one bit to see upkeep costs paid until settling.

But of course, I'm fine with it the way it is, too.

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lilyophelia

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lilyophelia

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9 years ago

Jan 26, 2016, 2:59:31 PM

Those are all great ideas, natev.

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Valadeus

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Valadeus

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9 years ago

Jan 27, 2016, 1:00:31 PM

Perhaps a way to bring up a "regional" view window in which you can look at the minor faction villages (and number of them), available resources, anomalies and other statistics of the region(s) your units are located in, even if you haven't uncovered them completely on the map, sort of like a snapshot of the regional statistics to help you make settling and expansion choices.

For instance, I start in region X. I open up the "regional statistics" window and see:

Region X

Hurnas (2 villages)

Anomalies 4 (list them here)

Primary Terrain Type (Forest)

Something like that, maybe?

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Capt.TeddyBear

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Capt.TeddyBear

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9 years ago

Jan 28, 2016, 7:49:18 AM

Antistone wrote:
What do you mean by "all the territory"? Presumably you're not expecting to see the entire map before the game starts?

(You probably mean "region", but there have been games where I decided to found my first city outside my starting region...and I think it's worth wondering whether EL2 would even have "regions" in the same way as EL1.)

Correct, not all the map cause that would remove one of the "X"'s and 3x is just not as red as 4x.

So just my little starting region and as above, not the whole map.

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For Endless Legend MkII can I suggest you drop the old start mechanics?

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