The difference is mostly that they are not afraid to give us buggy builds ^^.



In DotE it was like this: They gave us a build with the hero-skills but no balance changes.

I was like: "How would I motivate myself playing this without any challenging changes?"

Then they made a new version that was much harder. I approved it.

So this basically means: It's all my fault that a lot of people are frustrated with the difficulty in DotE now. And evil as I am, I kinda enjoy that only them 1337 ppl can still beat it!



I don't think I can say anything about EL though because I've been warned twice in the past for getting borderline to NDA-violation.

considering DotE is still on pc only, i don't believe they will port it to mac anytime soon even after it is early access

SpaceTroll wrote:
Something I should add, is that we have the VIP already "playing" on a very early build. Well playing is maybe an exaggeration, experimenting with it seems more appropriate



But it helps a lot already to get their feedback at that stage

Any news on the MAC port?

I too love the early access program and without it would probably of missed the awesomness that is DotE. I do agree however that some early access programs are a joke and sometimes it feels like its just a way for a company to put cash in its coffers. However Amplitude studios are an amazing studio and I love both games they have done so far and will be buying the early access of Endless Legend as well, they are an example to other studios out there on how early access and community communication should be handled. Well done.

SpaceTroll wrote:




So yes you can expect us for Legends to come out as early access on Steam , we are aiming not so far in the near future, but we still have quite a few issues to solve



SpaceTroll

Yay! I eagerly look forward to its release! I personally love the early access program and what it entails, the idea that players can help steer and direct gaming development is incredible, and also the reason why my console sits collecting dust =P For me, the support for this really started right here with Endless Space, so you guys here at Amplitude hold a special place for me. Now, I am an avid supporter of Early Access and Greenlight on Steam, but I have noticed some serious issues with them, hence, the questions. Some developers just don't deliver on promises (I am looking at you 22Cans >.> ) and some early access players seem to get bummed at early releases and become actively critical in reviews and forums which can, in turn, be a blow to some developers. Regardless, I hope that those players eventually learn to help and not hinder xD I now have a nice sized section of my Steam library with my early access games that I eagerly check almost daily for updates, (which another DoTE update? Already? Is it my birthday already? =P ) and I look forward to adding Endless Legend to that list! Also, thank you for taking the time and providing such an informative reply to my post!

especially once you increase your academy size.

Yeah, accessing hero information wasn't as easy as it should be in ES.

they should probably also give some pop ups regarding heroes however they eventually end up designing the hero system, many people don't check the hero screen so without popups they may feel they are at a disadvantage.

Bliz is probably right. A good but non-intrusive tutorial as well as certain basic safeguards (like not being able to end your turn without a research option chosen) would help.

as long as its at least at a standard difficulty when people start playing it, it should be fine without complaints. though based on what i've read on the endless space steam forums, people are likely to complain that normal is too hard.

Ail wrote:
The difference is mostly that they are not afraid to give us buggy builds ^^.



In DotE it was like this: They gave us a build with the hero-skills but no balance changes.

I was like: "How would I motivate myself playing this without any challenging changes?"

Then they made a new version that was much harder. I approved it.

So this basically means: It's all my fault that a lot of people are frustrated with the difficulty in DotE now. And evil as I am, I kinda enjoy that only them 1337 ppl can still beat it!



I don't think I can say anything about EL though because I've been warned twice in the past for getting borderline to NDA-violation.

I'd thank you for having real challenge for the player in mind when alpha/beta-testing. Thumbs up from me.

Loving the Concepts I have seen so far! This game seems like the perfect blend of what I love about ES and jumps it into a portion of the genre that so far has seemed lacking ( i.e. Enchantress, which while decent, was rather lackluster...). BUT, I am rather curious as to whether this game will be made available in the same fashion as the previous two Amplitude titles. Will it only be available through Steam? Will it be released as an early access game via Steam? There is some controversy as to whether the early access system is effective and I was wondering if this will affect Amplitude's participation with this and future titles. How soon will we start seeing G2G votes for this game? Will there be open/closed alpha/betas and how will participation be made available if so? Is the ongoing development of both this and DotE simultaneously causing difficulties at all for both or either? And most important of all, what kind of time-frame are we looking at for the release of this game? I have not really been able to find anything on this yet, but the screens that have been released with the production documents make it look very fleshed out so far, and at the very least close-ish to release. I am eagerly awaiting this game and am posting this thread in hopes of kinda giving a central place for release and/or access info as I have had a difficult time finding any so far xD So if I am just missing the info somehow just link where it is here and I'll be as happy as a Craver on a newly conquered world .png" alt="smiley: " title="" />

What is the difference between a vip build than a non vip build. I do know they get access to new features when you decided to add them like in Endless Space. I am just wondering if it is a complete game like the 4 levels we are getting in DOTE or is more just a couple of levels focusing on what has changed?



DarkMeph

Something I should add, is that we have the VIP already "playing" on a very early build. Well playing is maybe an exaggeration, experimenting with it seems more appropriate



But it helps a lot already to get their feedback at that stage

I guess the other thing is you get from it is new ideas or things you did not think off. I believe the game comes out at a better quality.



DarkMeph

SpaceTroll wrote:
... we are aiming not so far in the near future...

I think "Super Teaser man" is back !!! ^^

ok this is a very interesting topic...



Regarding the early access, we love it, and we think it can be something extremely beneficial for game development. personally I would not want to work otherwise.



What is the point for me of Early access? Mainly to get game feedback at a crucial time before it is too late. Yet this is only possible if your Alpha is as bug free as possible. If your players, constantly fight bugs, they will discuss bugs, not the game itself, and not only will you look bad, but the feedback will be useless. the only way to reach this is to control the amount of content available for Alpha Early access.



we faced a few bugs linked to hardware, or specific configuration, that we missed, and honestly I prefer so much to discover these issues then, than after release. But these issues are also one of the reasons why we want to give a price reduction to the Early access, as we do understand that this can be a bit frustrating.



Yes we had a few, very few, guys not happy with DOTE early access, because they found it too short, and they probably missed all our warnings, and I am not happy about that. Yet in the end they will have a lot of content, that's for sure.



Personally I don't get in many early access games, as I know it will be a time investment for me, but so rewarding .... sometimes I do it, not to participate in its development, but just to follow their evolution, to see the caterpillar become a butterfly.





so in the end, I am a big fan of Early access but it is a development philosophy, that in my sense works if you apply a few rules:



- You choose early access to really improve your gameplay, while you still can

- Your version is very stable and with very few known bugs

- You don't do it to finance your game

- Your game style can benefit from it



Then I think it is a win win for the developers and the players, but otherwise it can go all wrong...



So yes you can expect us for Legends to come out as early access on Steam , we are aiming not so far in the near future, but we still have quite a few issues to solve



cheers



SpaceTroll

"Democracy means the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people" - Oscar Wilde

Just keep in mind this term it help. "Make something idiot proof someone makes a better idiot."



DarkMeph

Oh and I was curious to see if the Steam Community "trolls" have affected the development of DotE at all, and if so if it would effect how this game is eventually released xD I feel like the average consumer on Steam nowadays cannot comprehend what the Early Access program is for and they give bad reviews to EA games that really deserve a chance =( I verbally bashed down one idiot who was foaming and demanding a refund for DotE. Guy must have skipped all 3 warnings saying it was a game that was still in development. So really I was wondering what kind of issues Amplitude specifically has run into with EA and if it was anywhere near as bad as some of the Steam community have experienced. And whether those issues would affect this and later titles from being released via Steam/Early Access. =/

I definitely agree! There is no need to rush out a broken product like most studios seem to do =/ I really would like to see this come out as early access though, so that we can get our input into the game AS it is developed and not pushed out as patch "fixes" post-production. But I have a lot of confidence that the Amp team will do this right... I am just looking to find out a target time-line and methods for delivery of what is shaping up to be another incredible game!

personally i would love to know an estimated time from amplitude, but i don't want to rush them or make them think they need it done by a specific date. as for gamestogether i believve they will indeed take community imput. but i am interested to see what amplitude would have to say about it.