So after taking out the AI on Impossible as Necrophages with a Supremacy victory and Ardent Mages with a Science victory, I thought I'd try Endless since it didn't take TOO much work for those wins, just some strategy and specialization. I figure it'd be a decent challenge. Endless difficulty says otherwise. To even have a chance as Broken Lords (standard build), I either have to spawn in a desert or turn Rivers and Anomalies on Many.



Why? Because they're a faction that has no access to food Dust is of double its normal value to them, and Industry only really matters for early game. So...why don't they spawn on a Desert region, just as Wild Walkers spawn on a Forest region? It's ridiculous. I could play Ardent Mages and probably run a better Dust game.. There's one, maybe two non-outdated Endless BL videos I've found on Youtube, and they all start on Deserts.



And this is all assuming one of the faction doesn't decide I need to die before turn 40 and utterly crush me. The military ramp-up for this faction takes too long in the beginning, but if I DON'T expand into prime territory quickly (Strategic Resources), I have no where to go. Are Broken Lords just that difficult a faction to play or am I not as good as those Impossible victories led me to believe? I get that the AI cheats HARD on Endless, but this is ridiculous..

1) There is a bias towards deserts for BL.



2) I believe that industry is more vital than you make it sound-- the early turns where it matters (until turn 40-60, say) are the most important turns, especially in endless difficulty.



3) The Broken Lords are probably one of the middling factions. I'd be surprised if you could play a better dust game with AM. Victories with vanilla BL on endless difficulty are certainly possible. In fact, I find that the quality of dust bishop healing makes them one of the easiest factions to win endless difficulty games against AI (all you need is one doom-stack, it'll last you through as many capitals as you need).



4) It sounds as if you're settling late. Maybe because you're undervaluing industry, maybe because you're not prioritizing settlers enough. As BL, I queue a settler on the first or second turn (depending on dust availability for that 2nd pop) and I have three cities before turn 20. Three cities is enough to get you a military win on endless difficulty, but you can settle more later if you want. I've written a three-part BL guide available here-- you might find it useful. (I'll go update it now.)

I'm not new (450+ hours logged, not including idling time) and started on a higher difficulty just due to my experience with Endless Space, but it's somewhat comforting to hear it's an issue at lower difficulties as well.



You must have better luck than I do with starting areas, Natev. If I manage to spawn in a desert (5 out of 25 tries is not a "bias"), I'm spawned right next to AI. Case in point: http://imgur.com/gallery/egdg1oU/new I don't feel like I downplayed industry at all - it's incredibly vital, as when you're aren't buying stuff out you need industry to complete buildings in a timely manner. The only way I've ever seen relying completely on Dust work out is if you get lucky on anomalies/play with them on High, and get lucky on Dust Efficiency heroes. Thank you for that guide. There's a lot in there that you suggest that seems counter-intuitive but I'll have to try it out if I can stop getting spawned in-between two AIs..



I usually settle my second city by turn 20, so I can grab both sides on the first empire plan.. You're not the first I've seen to say to settle like the AI does on hgiher difficulties and have a Settler out by turn 10, but is it really worth the sacrifice..?

That's my general experience with every faction, but especially with Broken Lords considering they have such a slow start. I rarely get to settle on Turn 1 as any faction but I try to settle by Turn 3 at the very latest, no matter what. I shifted down to Impossible for this BL run right now and it's going...decent. I tried playing with Industry more than usual upfront, and I still feel I'm suffering...maybe I need to incorporate one or two industry techs into my research patterns?



Natev's strategy works well but if you want an economic victory, at some point you need to switch over. On Impossible that tends to be somewhere between turn 45-65 but...on Endless, I have no clue. I just have this feeling that, like Impossible, if I don't take someone out quick at first, i stand zero chance of winning.

MasochisticAngel wrote:
I usually settle my second city by turn 20, so I can grab both sides on the first empire plan.. You're not the first I've seen to say to settle like the AI does on hgiher difficulties and have a Settler out by turn 10, but is it really worth the sacrifice..?

I don't really see it as sacrificing anything, it's just the most efficient way to spend your industry. You could build a mint and get maybe 33% more dust, build a library and get maybe 50% more science-- or you could buy a settler and get around 100% more industry, science, dust, and influence. That's something I want to do as rapidly as possible.

MasochisticAngel wrote:
Natev's strategy works well but if you want an economic victory, at some point you need to switch over. On Impossible that tends to be somewhere between turn 45-65 but...on Endless, I have no clue. I just have this feeling that, like Impossible, if I don't take someone out quick at first, i stand zero chance of winning.

Well, you don't have to switch over-- I've won many Endless difficulty games where I basically ceased economic development on reaching tier 2 and just started taking capitals. That's the quickest way to win. But if you want to switch over to an economic win, it's certainly possible, and, yeah, I'd say it happens around that time. You don't have to take anyone out, but you do need a good army, because you can anticipate at least one war getting declared on you. (If there aren't any necrophages, you can consider Diplomat's Manse instead and just stay in good standing with all the other players.) I don't really think about switching over between different strategies, because they all support each other: expansion gives you more cities which means more dust; dust gives you faster development than you'd get with industry alone, and is vital to maintaining your military; science gets you to the vital dust-producing techs and advances your military. It all works in concert in my mind, and pursuing an economic victory over a military victory doesn't ever mean changing strategies so much as it means ceasing to take cities, accepting truces and declaring no new wars.



But I do go into a bit of detail on how to turn a rapid, industry based start into an economic win in that guide, so I hope it's of some use to you!