Hello,



I got a few question about Endless Legend and Endless Space lore. The way they connect. If anyone with knowledge about it can answer me I would realy apreciate it.









1/ What is the timeline of Endless Legend ? I can't figure it out if EL come after or before ES



Are those factions ancestor of future ES game ? (Nidya => Hissho) (Necrophage => Carvers) etc...

Or is it the contrary ? A ship from ES time crashed on planet Auriga (DotE timeline) => hence EL



My trouble came from the contradiction that

1/ Vaulter can be played in ES => They came FROM Auriga

1/ Vaulter can be played in EL => They came TO Auriga



Which one is canon ?



2/ Ardant Mage faction quest suggest that there WHERE cousin/siblings with Roving Clans long ago...



AM seems to be Virtual and RC seems to be more Concrete (Same dust obsession, but different use of it)







3/ During Quest victory, any faction have the opportunity to repair an anciant spaceship and reach the stars (to colonize another world ? )



This ship looks Hissho design. Hissho came first in Auriga before Vaulters ?





Thanks you for your enlightenment.



- Ôkami -

In my opinion, Endless Legend comes after Endless Space. The main reason for this is that it would be really unsettling, I mean unimmersive, unplausible, if several races/people from Endless Space originally came from the same planet. It looks very unlikely. So I guess that, if some Endless Legend races like the Nidya are related in some way to Endless Space people like the Hissho (which is obvious for at least some of them, at least the Vaulters), then they are, as you said, originally space people who then crashed on the planet, forgot almost everything about their past, and regressed to a low tech age.



By the way, isn't it already confirmed by Dungeon of the Endless? I'm not sure about myself, but I think that Dungeon of the Endless is the story of such a crash on Auriga, and is therefore some kind of narrative bridge from Endless Space to Endless Legend.



Anyway, your suggestion about Ardent Mages and Roving Clans is interesting, elegant, I like it, but even if this interpretation is possible, I think it is just a coincidence. The first reason for this is that, as I think I showed (even though more arguments could be given, and some of them stronger probably), Endless Space must come before Endless Legend, while your interpretation would mean that Endless Legend comes FAAAR before Endless Space (as the Endless disappeared far before Endless Space; so Ardent Mages and Roving Clans cannot be the origin of the Endless). The other reason is very obvious: in Endless Legend you already can find many things that come from the Endless, like Dust, temples, wraiths (who are probably old Endless AIs), cultists, etc. And after all, I don't think that the original form of the Endless was human. It would be unoriginal and especially disappointing from an universe as amazingly creative as this one.



But maybe I just overinterpreted what you meant.

Oneyr wrote:
In my opinion, Endless Legend comes after Endless Space. The main reason for this is that it would be really unsettling, I mean unimmersive, unplausible, if several races/people from Endless Space originally came from the same planet. It looks very unlikely. So I guess that, if some Endless Legend races like the Nidya are related in some way to Endless Space people like the Hissho (which is obvious for at least some of them, at least the Vaulters), then they are, as you said, originally space people who then crashed on the planet, forgot almost everything about their past, and regressed to a low tech age.



By the way, isn't it already confirmed by Dungeon of the Endless? I'm not sure about myself, but I think that Dungeon of the Endless is the story of such a crash on Auriga, and is therefore some kind of narrative bridge from Endless Space to Endless Legend.



Anyway, your suggestion about Ardent Mages and Roving Clans is interesting, elegant, I like it, but even if this interpretation is possible, I think it is just a coincidence. The first reason for this is that, as I think I showed (even though more arguments could be given, and some of them stronger probably), Endless Space must come before Endless Legend, while your interpretation would mean that Endless Legend comes FAAAR before Endless Space (as the Endless disappeared far before Endless Space; so Ardent Mages and Roving Clans cannot be the origin of the Endless). The other reason is very obvious: in Endless Legend you already can find many things that come from the Endless, like Dust, temples, wraiths (who are probably old Endless AIs), cultists, etc. And after all, I don't think that the original form of the Endless was human. It would be unoriginal and especially disappointing from an universe as amazingly creative as this one.



But maybe I just overinterpreted what you meant.

I pretty much accept this. With one note that the Vaulters have two lineages. In one they escape the dungeon, and manage to leave the planet. In another, a multitude of survivors band together to form the Vaulters faction seen in Endless Legend.



An extra detail is that the calamity the Draken experience in the start of their story arc, may be the destroyed vessel breaking up in orbit. It's unclear what could be on board to cause such extreme damage to the planet. But ... maybe. Maybe.



Tangent: Although I love playing Risk of Rain even more now. After playing Dungeon of the Endless.

Oneyr wrote:
In my opinion, Endless Legend comes after Endless Space. The main reason for this is that it would be really unsettling, I mean unimmersive, unplausible, if several races/people from Endless Space originally came from the same planet. It looks very unlikely.

Given that Auriga essentially served as a giant petri dish for the Endless, it's not unreasonable to assume that some of the races that show up in Endless Space had their predecessors transplanted onto Auriga by the Endless (for instance, the Nidya and Hissho) or created on Auriga and used during the war between the Concrete and Virtuals (Necrophage, remodeled to Cravers)

Oneyr wrote:


By the way, isn't it already confirmed by Dungeon of the Endless? I'm not sure about myself, but I think that Dungeon of the Endless is the story of such a crash on Auriga, and is therefore some kind of narrative bridge from Endless Space to Endless Legend.

Yep. Proto-vaulters crash on Auriga in DotE, and hundreds of years later are forced to the surface by earthquakes at the start of Endless Legend.

Oneyr wrote:


Endless Space must come before Endless Legend, while your interpretation would mean that Endless Legend comes FAAAR before Endless Space (as the Endless disappeared far before Endless Space; so Ardent Mages and Roving Clans cannot be the origin of the Endless). The other reason is very obvious: in Endless Legend you already can find many things that come from the Endless, like Dust, temples, wraiths (who are probably old Endless AIs), cultists, etc.

SpaceTroll (Amplitude's creative director) describes the Endless universe in a post here. It's... certainly a long read (~22 pages' worth) but provides a lot of information that should salve any burning lore questions you've got. To summarize the immediately relevant part of SpaceTroll's post, the Endless were originally composed of three species, who all originated from a planet called Tor (which ended up getting accidentally destroyed) - so, not originally the Roving Clans and Ardent Mages; although the comparison between those two factions and the Concrete and Virtual Endless is very interesting.

Oneyr wrote:
But maybe I just overinterpreted what you meant.

Yes ^^ what I meant is that Ardent Mages and Roving clan could be spiritual sons of Virtual/Concrete faction... may be they are folowing their footsteps without even knowing it. I got Spacetroll post about Endless civilisation on my kindle Obviously it happen looong ago, way before AM/RC timeline. The only remnent on Virtuals whould be haunted minor faction. This "Guys" KNEW the endless right ? it could be interesting for other main faction (draken, Ardent mage, Cultist...) to dig a bit further their case...

chimaeraUndying wrote:
Yep. Proto-vaulters crash on Auriga in DotE, and hundreds of years later are forced to the surface by earthquakes at the start of Endless Legend.

I got DotE and finished it, so I assume Vaulter's ancestors come from guards/prisoners...



1/ Is it too farfetch to assume they branched out from United Empire (ES faction) ? like some kind of pilgrim...

2/ There are other factions (even unknown/unrevealed in ES) that could have fill the role of "proto-vaulter" [basically,beinghumanoidandhavingtechnologytospacetravelandpenitentiarysystem]



what are your thought on this ?

Maybe the fact that the Vaulters are a playable faction in Endless Space indicates that they are the civilization which canonically wins in Endless Legend? What I mean is that Endless Legend's story is just on a planet scale, while Endless Space is about entire cosmic eras; so the entirety of Endless Legend could just be a little parenthesis somewhere within Endless Space's time. Again, some people here know this universe far better than me (thank you for the previous clarifications, by the way!), so I'm just saying what I'm tempted to understand in the few informations I have.

Oneyr wrote:
Maybe the fact that the Vaulters are a playable faction in Endless Space indicates that they are the civilization which canonically wins in Endless Legend? What I mean is that Endless Legend's story is just on a planet scale, while Endless Space is about entire cosmic eras; so the entirety of Endless Legend could just be a little parenthesis somewhere within Endless Space's time.

That's a very interesting point of view.



I may ad that :



1/ If you look at the "album" section in DotE, you will find a blueprint of a UE Dreadnought spaceship... And I assume that album has been written by those who sent deliberately the prison hulk “Success” to Auriga

2/ We don't know the outcome of ES univers during EL time, do we ? Is the harmony finaly wipe out all the dust in univers ? Did cravers consumed everything ?



We may indeed assume that ES is still running at the time of EL



Minor factions equipped with spears and shields sometimes gaze the stars...without even suspecting that, up there, space battle involving laser beam and rockets are actually taking place !



Pls correct me if you think I'm wrong or if you have any idea on this.

EL takes place somewhere within the timeline of ES's gameplay - the Search for Auriga addon that added the Vaulters and Auriga as an unique planet chronicles the races of Endless Space combing the universe for Auriga. So as it stands, there's no difinitive conclusion to the narrative.



I like the theory that the Vaulters were originally prisoners exiled from the UE!

chimaeraUndying wrote:
EL takes place somewhere within the timeline of ES's gameplay - the Search for Auriga addon that added the Vaulters and Auriga as an unique planet chronicles the races of Endless Space combing the universe for Auriga. So as it stands, there's no difinitive conclusion to the narrative.



I like the theory that the Vaulters were originally prisoners exiled from the UE!

The lore of the Vaulter is pretty clear that ES plays after EL. So I would share the idea that by canon the Vaulters won EL and left while all the other factions from EL died except several heroes which can be encountered. A shame really. I would like to see a "Auriga Alliance" faction consisting out of all EL races except the Vaulters, Necrophages (and possibly Forsaken and Cult) who also managed to get off the planet, have a hatred for Vaulters for leaving them behind and a faction mechanic where focusing too much on a single FIDS aspect gives some bonuses in that area, but penalties in others as one of the races of the alliance increases its influence at the expanse of the others.



But it is also possible that Amplitude retconned some lore.

Auriga appears in Endless Space as a barren planet, which seems to suggest that the cataclysm shown in Endless Legends had already unfolded and led to the planet being a wasteland.



However, it has been suggested that Auriga underwent such violent transformations, declines, and rebirths in the past, so it could be that EL still happens after ES, and that the Vaulters in ES end up stranded on Auriga, leading them to become the Vaulters of EL. The presence of a Hissho ship on Auriga also seems to suggest that EL happens after ES.

KnightofPhoenix wrote:
Auriga appears in Endless Space as a barren planet, which seems to suggest that the cataclysm shown in Endless Legends had already unfolded and led to the planet being a wasteland.



However, it has been suggested that Auriga underwent such violent transformations, declines, and rebirths in the past, so it could be that EL still happens after ES, and that the Vaulters in ES end up stranded on Auriga, leading them to become the Vaulters of EL. The presence of a Hissho ship on Auriga also seems to suggest that EL happens after ES.

The Endless Space Vaulters are stated to have once lived on Auriga, but left the world in the distant past. In Endless Space, Opbot convinces them that they should go back.

So basically, the Vaulters timeline is that they started as the Mezari (from the planet Mazen). What connection the Mezari may have to the UE is unknown. But a Mezari prison ship crashed on Auriga, and the survivors eventually became the Vaulters. It should be noted that there were already humans present on Auriga by the then. In Dungeon of the Endless, Mizi, a Sister of Mercy, is classified as a native. And I suspect the merchants are Roving Clansmen (the way they dress, as well as the presence of the pug suggest this). So the Sisters of Mercy, Roving Clans, and, by extension, the Ardent Mages are all not descended from the Vaulters. The Forgotten appear to be, though. Where did these other humans come from? Unknown. The Nidya were already present on the planet, too, as shown by Hikensha.

Anyway.

So the Mezari crash survivors became the Vaulters. The Vaulters eventually escaped the planet, possibly via a crashed Hissho ship (which may be how the Nidya got there, we'll find out when more chapters of the community story come out). Generations later, during Endless Space, they go back, or at least attempt to.

Okay, Endless Space is the grand time line. Within Endless Space, you have DotE followed by Endless Legend and then the Endless Space game.



In Endless Space, time isn't really taken into account if you think about it. In a system with heavy gravity, time would pass much faster then say one without. Also distance between systems is abstracted, so, the whole of Endless Legend can happen with a few dozen turns of ES. Time is tricky like that.

Nasarog wrote:
Okay, Endless Space is the grand time line. Within Endless Space, you have DotE followed by Endless Legend and then the Endless Space game.



In Endless Space, time isn't really taken into account if you think about it. In a system with heavy gravity, time would pass much faster then say one without. Also distance between systems is abstracted, so, the whole of Endless Legend can happen with a few dozen turns of ES. Time is tricky like that.

One turn is a year (see turn counter. This year is also referenced in the lore). Also, as the Vaulters already exist at the start of the game with the lore that they escaped a long time ago, it is safe to say that EL happens a long time before ES.