I feel like a lot of the posts I've read here talk about buying out buildings and upgrading units as if they just always have tons of dust on hand, but when I try to do it, I'm basically bankrupt before turn 20. Maybe it's just positioning, but sometimes even with really high-dust starting positions, I'm still super poor. It's always disappointing when I finally research the tier 2 titanium/glassteel armor, make a SWEET unit and then can't make/retrofit any of them because I'm broke. (Then again I might just be over-ambitious with the units I make, lol)



Any general tips for keeping your dust up in the early game, or what to prioritize spending it on? I've also had mixed results with splitting the army up to scout, is it worth the extra army maintenance cost?



Thanks!!

How to make it: Search ruins like crazy (3 independent explorers).



How to spend it: As soon as you can, on whatever you can. Better returns from lower industry cost items, so extractors are ideal.



How to earn enough for unit retrofits: Move all population everywhere onto Dust for a couple of turns. Helps if you can afford the Econ 1 empire plan. Or, just build the units the way you want them to begin with...



At least, that's how I do it.

Thank you!



Ya I guess I didn't connect the dots but splitting the initial party really pays for itself if you get enough dust from the ruins. I think a problem I have is that I'm too reluctant to bring them back together, and end up just having them wander over the whole map till they bump into a drakken army and die :P

I´ll judge as early the period that goes from the moment I´m building a Mint, which can be as late as turn 18-20 on normal speed and anywhere from turn 9-15 on fast, to the first time I´ll usually be getting Economy Ministry which tend to be around 40normal/20fast.



The way I handle dust, with anyone but Broken Lord and Roving Clans: I´m happy with what I have, and I´m always by default saving for Retrofits. By that I mean I will only move population into dust early if I´m going negative. All the math for Ardent Mages is the same -CostOfNextPillar.



If I find dust on a ruin, great. then



if there´s some opportunity cost I absolutely cannot miss (like finishing a Monument or very early District on the right timing to start building a freshly researched Library or Mill; or getting an early luxury for Deed, or strategic for quest, or for Wonder, or because my neighbor is a Vaulter), then I´ll spend it as soon as I can. If there´s an opportunity to invest that dust into a steady future dust output, then that´s number two.



If none of the above happen, then I´ll save it.



I only retrofit really early when I´m clearly in range of other players or aiming for the initiative Deed or a rush. Else I retrofit once to full iron T2(maybe t1 strategic weapon), then only do it again after all 4 strategic techs are unlocked. By the moment I start the first strategic tech, I analyze how´s my dust and then start saving to retrofit anything I´ll have produced by the time I finish the fourth, including the hero. During this period I´ll probably already have the Economy Ministry.



Once T3 kicks in, I replace the armor and shield, keep the level 2 strategic weapons and accessories, real cheap retrofit and very efficient (block3, sharp senses 3 for example)

IluisIndustries wrote:
Thank you!



Ya I guess I didn't connect the dots but splitting the initial party really pays for itself if you get enough dust from the ruins. I think a problem I have is that I'm too reluctant to bring them back together, and end up just having them wander over the whole map till they bump into a drakken army and die :P

Well, you're usually better off exploring until death than recalling them too quickly, but it depends on who you're playing. RC or a fast-traveller custom can cover so much ground that you might as well just keep on going all the way. BLs only get the one retreat unless you want to pay, making it a little more worthwhile to drag them back home. Personally, I find T2 parley rewards and strategics underwhelming, maybe I should recall once I get my "Reach T2 inside 10 turns" quest which is usually for something nice.



Just so you know, if you do have the unit selected while advancing the turn, and just spam the mouse button, you can get away from any AI or roamer, and from most players too.

It is irrelevant but i wonder what turn is early game? I dont know abaut this games speed.

At normal speed, at which turn early game, mid game and late game.

I think rather than the transition being on set turns, it would probably be based more on "moments" in the game, such as your first winter, or the first time you are gearing up for war, etc.



Early game could be before the onset of the first winter, although some would probably indeed push that to the turn you declare war on someone. These would indeed vary depending on the faction (a Roving Clan player would have no use for a definition of early featuring "first wardec").



Does that help?

Dream0n wrote:
It is irrelevant but i wonder what turn is early game? I dont know abaut this games speed.

At normal speed, at which turn early game, mid game and late game.

I use the tech levels and availability of empire plans to define it mostly, but mainly because they dictate what Frogsquadron called "moments" in the game.



It´s been a while I don´t play normal speed - if you want, you can check my threads for Endless Roving Clans and Endless Ardent Mages to see my game progression before starting mp - so I´ll use my current definition for Fast Speed, and you can roughly multiply it by 2.



T 1-8 - Beginning of the game, very little that matters can be decided now, mostly scouting. On normal, I´d say that goes up until turn 10 (not 16) since the time it takes to scout the map is the same, and by then you can already have found borders and start making decisions. (tech tier 1)



T 9-30 - Early game. Real rushes happen between this period, especially making use of level 2 military empire plan which will be rare across the board, and damage accessories; just like real wide needs to have expanded to at least another 3 regions by then, as well as gotten food, industry and science nationals in the appropriate cities. Tall empires should have basic home defenses with a single 4-6 units army, at least a couple of districts in the capital and probably Wonders and most Nationals. (tech tier 1/2)



T 31-65 - Mid game. This is the point everyone has the potential to explore their military to the maximum. Every basic national building should be up for everyone, making the effort of producing units much cheaper. Necros can start swarming, Cultists run out of buildings to build, Broken Lords reach a comfortable dust generation. This is usually the point which Military oriented builds are able to break Economy oriented ones, since the gaps between economic techs and military techs can be really significant. By the end of this period, more scientific civs* can have already activated Level 4 Military Empire plan (tech tier 2/3/4*)



T 66-the end - Late game. People are preparing for the last sprint on whichever victory they want. Wonder victory will require some hyperium and mithrite; Eco victories will need lots of mithrite while Scientific victories will require lots of hyperium. Level 4 military empire plan can become essential to survive. Wild Walkers and Broken Lords should be getting their peaceful victories in no much more than 20 turns. (tech tier 4/5/6)



hope this helps