lilyophelia wrote:


It would probably be more interesting for Forgotten to not be able to buy science better than they can spy it.

This !

Buying science would be like "good-enough", but managing to steal it would be the icing on the cake !

lilyophelia wrote:
I think sometimes the most efficient way to play isn't always the most fun or interesting.



I also think that EL isn't exactly meant to be the most balanced game ever; within reasonable imagination, but not to exact/precise levels.



When I first started playing EL, it was all about figuring out the mechanics and becoming as efficient as possible; now, it's about making my games as interesting as possible.



It would probably be more interesting for Forgotten to not be able to buy science better than they can spy it.

I also have the same perspective. Fluff and awesomeness will always trump balance in my eyes, though of course I would still advocate for a reasonable state of balance.



The cool thing about Endless Legend though is how it seems to attract both crowds and maintain a delicate balance between two extremes, which isn't always easy. It also helps that we are a small and adorable community.

I got EL recently, and this guide gave some me good pointers for my first game as the Forgotten. Though it's not like I was really optimizing anything since I wanted to do the faction quest at least once, but those handful of heroes you get at the end are pretty handy when you want to take out the fortifications of four capitals simultaneously.



But I poked around in the game files and noticed there are actually two unused infiltration actions. One is the city option to Leech Trade Routes, and the other is the empire option to Steal Luxury Booster. So I'm curious, would Amplitude want to implement these in the future, or were they left out for balance and/or technical reasons?

DISCLAIMER: I do not claim to be an expert nor will I pretend that my ideas are somehow superior to anyone else's or that there is only "one" right way to play the Forgotten. This guide is simply intended as a place to put my personal thoughts and experiences in this faction down and hope that maybe someone else benefits from it or shares their thoughts and together everyone gets better.



INTRODUCTION

My name is Avilyss, I've not been playing Endless Legend for probably nearly as long as many of the frequenters of these forums have but I usually am a quick study and have a mind for strategy. I've been a major fan of the Forgotten faction ever since it came out and I've been spending a lot of time testing it out, especially in the early game, and I'd like to put down my thoughts and experiences here. This guide could possibly be called "comprehensive" since it's going to go over every aspect of the game and its relation to the Forgotten but I'll simply call it a guide based on my own limited understanding. Also, I do not play with Custom Factions, so I'll be talking about the basic, default Forgotten.



STARTING THE GAME

After playing several games (upwards of thirty) as the Forgotten, focusing primarily on turns 1-60, I've found that generally the best result for getting a solid start is to focus on Production (like most factions) and you should place your starting location with that in mind. I strongly recommend placing your starting city in a forest, preferably with as many exploit tiles on forest tiles as you can. Forests will become very helpful at every stage of the game and I'll explain why throughout the guide. For now, just remember: Production and Forests.



First Turn

• Set your first Worker on Production and immediately begin building the Founder's Stone.
• Purchase the "Language Square" research
• Divide your army so that one Assassin is going one way and one Assassin and your starting hero are going another way
• If there is a minor faction village in your region within movement distance of your hero army, go ahead and move there and Parley
• If there is no village within movement distance of your hero, unassign your hero and reassign her to be governor of your starting city
  
  

This will be the only turn that I provide play-by-play for, as it will generally be the same in every game and it's vital to get the setup correct. The reason for researching Language Square right away is that your army is relatively weak compared to most factions and trying to forcibly pacify a starting village will cost you a lot more than it's worth. Ideally, you'll be able to get a quest to pacify and be able to do the quest before turn 18. (Sooner, the better)



Pacing Research with Production

Specifically for your first city and the early game research, the game will show you how to pace your research. I typically suggest the following research order:



Language Square (Purchased on Turn 1) -> Mill Foundry -> Empire Mint -> Cultivation -> Public Sewer System



Pacing will be based on the Production of your first city. When Founder's Stone is one turn away from completion, purchase Mill Foundry and immediately queue it up for production. When your Mill Foundry is one turn away, purchase Empire Mint and queue it up. Repeat this pattern all the way through the Public Sewer System. Reasons for these researches and this order:

• Mill Foundry: Provides much needed Production to help expedite the initial infrastructure and thus reduces the time required to set up the rest of the buildings, should be priority one
• Empire Mint: Generating a Dust engine early will allow you to keep pace in the early game. This is more important than growing population because the sooner you get a good Dust engine going, the sooner you'll be able to capitalize on the strength of the Forgotten
• Cultivation: Seed Storage for increased Food which helps your city naturally grow
• Sewer System: Probably one of the best starting buildings for the Forgotten, the increase in approval means an increase in Production and Food, both are very helpful for the continued pacing of the game
  
  

Managing Your Starting Hero

Third Builder Gula Yawa has a versatile but ultimately ineffective spread of starting abilities. She's got Army Initiative Boost 2 as a general, Dust Boost 2 as a governor and Spying 4 as an infiltrator. One of the struggles the Forgotten face in the early game is the general weakness of their units which forces them to rely on the assistance of their hero for early game conflicts. However, using her a governor actually provides a larger benefit to the overall success of your early game. The Dust Boost she provides makes hitting the research checkpoints much easier as well as allows you to build an early surplus of Dust to use at turn 20 when you're going to do a series of rapid buyouts.



Managing Gula should follow this basic pattern: Keep Gula as the governor whenever she's not required for a fight or completion of a minor faction quest. Reassign her as necessary to an army when a fight is unavoidable or when you're going to hit several villages or ruins with an army in a turn or two (a quick experience point injection). Your first skill point for her should be the faction point that allows quicker reassigning as this will make managing her much easier.



The best governor hero I've seen for the Forgotten is Consecrate, she provides both a Dust and Influence Boost as a governor but she seems to be a very rare hero on the market so relying on her acquisition is a risk and I don't bank on chance as a rule. So I tend to gear Gula as a governor. As she levels, I put points into the Faction skill that gives Dust on forest tiles and if you built your first city surrounded by forests, you'll soon have a very good Dust engine as you move into the mid-game, this will allow you to not only keep pace with research but have the Dust necessary for emergency buyouts.



Reassign Gula to the army as necessary but generally, I recommend keeping her assigned as a governor, the benefit to your overall Empire is truly invaluable.



Managing Your Capital

Managing your Capital City is important in any faction. Keep your workers primarily on Production and Dust, moving them to Influence whenever you need to bank up Influence (such as for upcoming Empire Plans) and moving them to Food during Winter if necessary to prevent starvation.



Approval is extremely important to the Forgotten, as it allows you to minimize the investment needed in Food and Production by providing a passive boost to both. Thus, avoid building District Expansions (Burrough Streets), these should be reserved specifically for picking up anomalies, strategic resources, luxury resources or an influx of either Dust or Production (expanding toward forests is always good if you're going to expand as it will continue to capitalize on your Hero's governing abilities).



SPECIALIZATION

The Forgotten do not have the luxury of being indecisive. Their dependence on Dust and the exponential increase in research costs leaves no room for unnecessary investment, long term planning is the key. Taking researches you need that will help you reach your endgame goal is essential, do not waste time on research that isn't going to help you reach that goal or you'll only make things more difficult for yourself.



Decide which victory condition you're going to reach for as early as possible and tailor every decision you make toward reaching that goal. If you're going for Supremacy, start getting eyes on your enemies' capital cities, if you're going for Elimination, invest time, research and Dust into advancing your military and spend a significant amount of time pacifying and assimilating minor factions whose units will cover your units weaknesses.



Be decisive, be deliberate.

GAME MECHANICS (FACTION TRAITS)



Stealth

As covered above, stealth is a feature the Forgotten are designed around. Capitalize on it by keeping your opponents in the dark regarding troop number, type and location and move carefully around the map to avoid detection and unnecessary engagements. The less your opponents know about you and the more you know about them, the better off you are.



Focusing on your own faction units allows your armies to stay invisible to the opponent, making it impossible to keep track of your unit count, type and positioning. Use this to your advantage. Keep armies close to one another in the same region but spread out enough that a unit spotting one won't necessarily spot the others. When fights are committed, your opponent will not see reinforcements on the summary screen that he can't see on the map, so you can have waves of reinforcements coming that your opponent is completely unaware of, set this up intentionally and ambush your enemies.



Keep units like Predatore and Assassins in flanking armies, allow them to quickly join in and start targeting down key enemies while your Mysts do most of the frontline work. Move carefully around the map to be able to discreetly pillage and spy on enemy movements. Use all of this to your advantage.



Infiltration

Every faction can use infiltration but only the Forgotten really excel at it. Think of infiltration as a form of both psychological warfare and one of the Forgotten's best methods for "closing the gap" between themselves and their enemies (in terms of research, unit power, income, city development, etc).



Infiltration is neat and you can do some really neat things with it, but like all things related to the Forgotten, you can't afford to be indecisive. If you choose in infiltrate, you need to have a clearly defined plan and timeline for why you're doing so. Otherwise you're simply wasting your hero, who could be serving as a general or governor for benefit elsewhere.



Below is a list of infiltration actions, which point in the game it's most useful, what level I recommend doing it at and some details about the action.



Actions that reveal where your spy is located

These actions don't necessarily put out a notice to the infiltrated player that your spy is in their city, but an observant player would notice them taking place and be alerted to the presence of your spy. Use these abilities carefully and with intent because it's likely you'll have to leave the city afterward.



Reduce Population

(Level 4 or 5, Best done during Winter, Midgame or Late Game)

I'll go ahead and state it, this is the absolute best function for your infiltrating spy in my opinion. This single action alone does so much to hurt your opponent and there's no way to expedite recovery from it without inflicting further harm. I do NOT recommend using this action against the Broken Lords because they will simply buy their population back for a nominal price and you'll have exposed your spy and done nothing.



If done during the Winter, the recovery period is even longer as population growth is severely stunted in the winter and, if the game kills the Food workers they've put there to stave off starvation, could trigger starvation in the city.



Yes, this action will reveal the location of your spy if the owner of the city is paying attention and sees population suddenly missing from his city (or gets a starvation notice). However, it has the added benefit of crippling the "Roundup" feature, as it reduces the security bonus they achieve (because it's based on population), which makes catching your spy much harder and, by the time they could probably try and roundup your spy, you could do it again.



Damage Fortification

(Level 4 or 5 Midgame, Late Game or Endgame)

Consistent with the Forgotten's "swoop in and take them by surprise" battle strategy, this infiltration ability can make capturing a city, even a capital, happen almost instantly. When done at level 4, this ability effectively damages the Fortification value of the city to the maximum value of its Fortification rating. (So, if a city's max value is 800, then it will deal 800 damage to the Fortifications, regardless of its current value). This means that if you've been setting the city to siege and the current value is 400, then you'll effectively deal 400 damage to every unit in the city. (400 Fortification - 800 damage = 400 damage to each unit in the garrison) which can immediately clean out an entire garrison. If done at level 5, it reduces the Fortification value to 0 for 12 turns. This means that the city will literally have no fortification, it won't heal and it won't protect anything in the garrison. Choose which level you wish to use the ability at based on the situation at hand but no matter what you choose, make sure you're attacking the city immediately afterward or you're wasting the action and revealing the location of your spy.



Halt Production

(Level 5, any time)

This ability is best used against Tall Empires. At level 5, it literally stops any and all production on the city which means nothing can be built and, more importantly, nothing can be bought at that city for 12 turns. It effectively puts the city in stasis for 12 turns. A smart player can divert the workers to Dust or Influence for 12 turns to try and minimize the setback but if this ability is triggered when they're in the middle of producing something really important (like a Wonder or a legendary building) then you can set an opponent back incredibly far. Be advised that use of this ability will almost indefinitely trigger a "roundup" at the city and it's best to exfiltrate your spy shortly afterward.



Actions that do not reveal the location of your spy

These abilities are Empire-Wide and thus don't reveal the location of your spy. You can do these with a little more freedom but again, make sure you do everything intentionally, don't waste time or be indecisive.



Steal Technology

(Level 3 Midgame, Level 4 Late Game, Level 5 Endgame)

I actually do not recommend using this ability unless absolutely necessary. One, it resets your infiltration level and (more importantly) relying on this ability can reveal your spy (get them caught or disabled) and implies that you don't have the Dust Engine and Economy you need to sustain yourself. This ability becomes a little more effective in the later parts of the game where you're inevitably going to fall behind in research and can be used to save large chunks of Dust to acquire vital research but otherwise this ability is generally not an optimal use of your infiltrator.



Reduce Vision

(Level 4 or 5, Late Game, Endgame)

The biggest advantage to this ability is that it hurts detectors, including Watchtowers. If you're going to use this ability make sure that you capitalize on it! This ability will allow you to freely move across territory, setting up ambushes, pillaging key resource harvesters and villages and destroying Watchtowers.



Reduce Morale

(Level 3, 4 or 5, Midgame, Late Game, Endgame)

Another very powerful ability that an infiltrator can do and, more importantly, a very subtle one. Your opponent isn't likely to realize you've done this to their empire until they initiate a fight, this ability also single-handedly closes the gap between your units and your opponent's units. Your units go from being slightly weaker in a straight fight to overwhelmingly effective, especially when coupled with a high morale bonus of your own. Use this ability any time you are forced to engage in a long, drawn-out campaign against an adversary who has been building their military power.



Faction-Specific Infiltration Abilities

These abilities are recommended ONLY against certain factions as their benefits are most recognized against them.



Target the Governor

(Level 5, Cultists, Roving Clans)

I recommend only using this ability at its level 5 stage. Level 4 is decent, putting the hero in disabled status but they can buy them out relatively quickly. Level 5 puts the hero in your academy with a 30 turn cooldown and you can ransom the hero back to them or simply hold them for 30 turns. This ability is extremely effective against factions that rely heavily on governors to function, namely the Cultists and the Roving Clans.



It's effective because even if you can't attack the city after removing the governor, the loss of the governor bonuses can severely hamper the progress of these two factions. Use it wisely and try to time it around Empire Plans and/or Winter.



Leech Trade Routes

(Level 5, Roving Clans)

Pretty much self explanatory. Not only does this severely hamper the Roving Clans' victory progress but it substantially boosts your ability to make bank and have a Dust storage.



Decrease Diplomatic Cost

(Level 4 or 5, Drakken)

The only "counter" you have against the Drakken's force diplomacy ability is this. It substantially reduces the Influence Cost for breaking alliance and peace treaties and allows you a great deal more liberty in dealing with them. As the reduction is 10 turns, they can't effectively counter your ability to fight them for the next 10 turns. Make the most of them that you can.



FACTION TACTICS, TIPS AND TRICKS



Units



Generally speaking you're going to want to use primarily your own faction units, minor faction units do not have stealth and can dramatically reduce your ability to remain hidden. The exception to this rule is once you have a hero with the ability to make an entire army benefit from stealth. The thing about the faction units is that they're not designed for straight toe-to-toe confrontation but rather emphasize quick movement, ambushing and mobility. Below is a quick write-up of the three basic units of the faction and how to capitalize on their use.



Assassin

Perhaps one of the most underrated units in the game, the Assassin has a couple of unique abilities that make it live up to its name. The Assassin is not a frontline unit. The key to the Assassin's capability is one singular trait: Acrobat. Combined with a high Initiative and some movement speed increases, the Assassin's ability to move through enemy units makes it uniquely suited to bypassing the enemy's frontline units and targeting their softer support and ranged units in the back. This unit can wreak havoc on a formation line and its high damage output allows it to very quickly bring down enemy units that they would otherwise try shielding.



Failing that, use their high initiative to force the enemy units to attack them rather than your softer units. They can easily force units to burn their attacks on countering, thus eliminating their ability to focus down your other units. Assassins should be a part of any Forgotten army composition at every stage of the game.



Equipment: The default two-sword set up is a decent set up for general purpose work, providing a slight boost in defense and the "infantry slayer" ability. When fighting against most minor factions and even most major faction units, this setup will serve you just fine. However, setting them up with an axe in their main-hand and a sword in their off-hand has proven to be the most effective set up. You gain the Ranged Slayer and Infantry Slayer traits as well as a small initiative boost. I recommend setting them up this way at the very beginning (retrofitting is free) and simply upgrade the weapons as you go.



Predatore

The slowest unit (in terms of initiative) in the Forgotten arsenal, they are also the only ranged unit you'll get. They're not particularly tough and their low initiative makes them vulnerable to cavalry and other high-initiative, high move speed units. I find the Predatore function best as ambush units. Don't have them in your main army, leave them a few tiles away from your army, hidden from view and allow them to join the fight as ambush units. Their stacking damage debuff allows them to very quickly pick apart larger, tougher units that your Assassins are going to be avoiding.



Alternatively, you can have them positioned in the back of a fight and have them slowly move forward, engaging from cliffs and the cover of trees to pick off units. Either way, I would use them opposite the way I'd normally use ranged units, have them focus on the tougher, frontline units or the cavalry units make them weak enough for your Assassins to pick them off.



Equipment: The default two-crossbow setup works decently for general purposes. The "point-blank power" allows them to do more damage when being attacked (which they will be, A LOT) but ultimately is only effective when they're on the defensive, which is never where you want them to be anyway (especially since they don't apply their damage debuff when countering). Unfortunately, there really isn't a better setup for them so leave it as is. Once again, focus on Glasteel for the Initiative bonus.



Myst

Flying. High Initiative. High Attack. High Defense. These units are your mainstay, your actual "frontline" units and arguably one of the best weapons in your army. Their ability Faster Than Shadows makes them extremely dangerous to cluttered up enemies, coupled with their high initiative and high defense, they can get in, do a great deal of damage and live to do it again. Use them to get into the face of your enemy's cluttered units and dish out the pain early, their speed and flying attributes allow them to quickly move to key points on the battlefield and strike where they can do the most damage.



Equipment: Originally they are equipped with claws, which are two-handed weapons that provide the "Sweep Strikes Back" ability, which hits every enemy unit around them when countering. If you've set your army up for high initiative (which you should) then this ability will hardly ever be used as most units will not have nearly the initiative the Myst does. However, claws also have a very high damage output. Consider switching the longspears if you're against a large number of cavalry units but otherwise claws work just fine.



EMPIRE PLAN

Every twenty turns (on standard speed) a new Empire Plan becomes available, every (20-6) turns, (14, 34, 54, 74, etc) you'll receive a notification about an upcoming Empire Plan. This notification is your trigger to do the math on what plan points you want, how much influence it will cost and start rearranging your workers accordingly. Your first Empire Plan should be "wide" meaning +3 Dust Per Worker and -20% Cost Reduction for Research. This will give you the biggest jump start to your research and Dust production for the rest of the game.



Plan to expand your Empire Plan according to your victory plan and needs. For example, if you plan on winning primarily through military conquest, then investing the 20% Unit Production Cost Reduction and 30% Increase Damage on units are good investments. If you plan on playing the Infiltration game, then investing in sight range increase and the Approval rating bonus are good investments. You should never turn off the first two points

VICTORY CONDITIONS AND THE FORGOTTEN



Specialization

Earlier I mentioned that you need to specialize if you hope to compete. This remains true. Once you have a victory path decided, make sure every action you take and every decision you make will bring you closer to that victory condition, if it doesn't then you don't really have the time or resources for it. With that in mind, I'm outlining some general tips on how to pursue certain victory conditions, how that will affect your game plan and strategy and some mistakes to avoid.



Quest Victory

Unless you are planning to win through Faction Quests, don't even bother doing your Faction Quests. They require you to completely sidetrack your opening strategy, waste time with your hero and send you sprawling over the map for very little return on your investment. I won't go into too much detail, but I'll illustrate my point on the first few quests.



The first quest requires you to pacify a minor faction village. Sometimes this can be easily done through Parley but often times it's not and the amount of time and investment you'll put into pacifying that village quickly sidetracks your other endeavors. Whether its military and having to pull Gula away from governance to assist the army, bribery which will slow down your research checkpoints or completing a lengthy and complicated pacification quest, this first quest alone significantly reduces your early game efficiency.



The second quest requires you to search a ruins that is often a significant distance from your starting region and you will have to fight two Predatore units, which will require your hero or more units, as your starting Assassins will have trouble beating the Predatore by themselves, especially if you did the military option to pacify the village. The reward is two quest-class Predatore units which can't be upgraded, making them increasingly ineffective as the game progresses.



The third quest requires you to infiltrate an enemy Major Faction city and reach infiltration level 3. Not only is this a significant time sink, it also requires you to completely forego the ability to use your starting hero as either a governor or a general, leaving your weaker-than-average army to fend for itself and/or denying the very necessary Dust boost to get your early bankroll.



The fourth quest then requires you to investigate another ruins to receive a new hero: Ziema. If you're going to do the Faction Quests and aren't doing the Faction Quest victory, then this is the point where you stop. You've already lost a significant amount of time and investment just getting this far and the hero you've received is not a very good hero. The next quest requires you to level her to level 3 and invest into the "Double or Nothing" skill at level 2, which is only effective if you're making her a spy...and then you're awarded with a pair of swords for a general hero.



All-in-all, unless you're going for Faction Quest victory, I'd completely ignore all of the Forgotten quests.



Scientific Victory

Unless you are a masochist, this victory should be the farthest thing from your mind.



Diplomatic Victory

While not exactly suited to it, this victory is actually achievable by the Forgotten in an underhanded way. While the Drakken are clearly the superior choice for this type of victory, the Forgotten can actually capitalize on the Inflitration aspect of their heroes to make Diplomacy Victory that much easier. By using the Infiltration actions Reduced Diplomatic Cost and a combination of either Target the Governor (Capturing them to use as ransom and force treaties, alliances and other things), or other hindering tactics as a way of saying "Befriend me or suffer," the Forgotten can actually "force" diplomacy as well and in a much more enjoyable way, in my opinion.



Most effective against AI opponents, you could have a lot of fun doing it in multiplayer but don't expect to actually win.



Expansion Victory

Possible but the Forgotten are ill-suited to defending so much territory. They could do it with a constant outflow of units from sprawling cities focused on production, but ultimately this type of victory requires a great deal of staying power, which the Forgotten simply don't have.



Economic Victory

Definitely possible but don't try beating a Roving Clans player to it or you'll be in for disappointment.



Elimination Victory

Possible. Requires a bit more investment into military power than normal and will likely require the integration of some minor faction units to give you some "tank" presence on the battlefield but the right combination of Guardians and faction units is definitely possible for long-term military campaigns.



Supremacy Victory

Your preferred form of victory. There are several ways to achieve it but the easiest way is through Infiltration. Get a spy going in the capital, Damage the Fortifications and steamroll the Garrison. Made significantly easier if they never see your army approaching the capital.



Wonder Victory

This would require you to create a tall empire rather than a sprawling one and will significantly reduce your military presence. You don't have particularly strong units so only being able to produce them a few at a time will make you easier to conquer by those with bigger, stronger units than you have. It's definitely possible but you're not particularly suited to it.



Time Victory

It is very unlikely that you'll win through this victory type simply because you'll be unable to keep up in score when you start being eclipsed in research. You can win this way but it will require hampering your opponents through infiltration and harassment to keep their scores low as well.



FINAL THOUGHTS

The Forgotten require you to play the game like Chess. Always anticipate your opponent and move to counter them, most of the fight is psychological and any engagement should be over before it even began. Pay extreme attention to cities your spies are in and watch for sudden increases in security rating (roundup) or workers being shifted to Influence or Production as it usually indicates something big is about to happen.

• Be deliberate. Every purchase you make, especially in terms of research, should contribute to your victory or help cover a weakness or emphasize a strength. You don't have time for anything else.
• Be careful. Never get into a hurry, pay attention to your enemies' movements, researches, units and patterns.
• Focus on Production, not Dust. Your Dust will take care of itself if you don't waste it on things like unit buyouts and worthless research.
• Use stealth to your advantage. Set up ambushes, keep your armies hidden and don't let your opponents see you moving toward objectives.
• Remember "out of sight, out of mind." There's a good chance players are going to be busy with one another, if you don't give them a reason to watch you, they're less likely to keep themselves distracted doing so.
  
  

I hope this lengthy guide is helpful to some and I'm always open to discussion and advice. I'll edit it and adjust it as I learn more. I suppose what I'm trying to emphasize is that playing Forgotten requires you to think like the Forgotten and play them differently than you would any other Faction because, like every unique faction in Endless Legend, they're their own beast and need to be handled as such.



Good luck and have fun!



~Avilyss

Avilyss wrote:


The fourth quest then requires you to investigate another ruins to receive a new hero: Ziema. If you're going to do the Faction Quests and aren't doing the Faction Quest victory, then this is the point where you stop. You've already lost a significant amount of time and investment just getting this far and the hero you've received is not a very good hero. The next quest requires you to level her to level 3 and invest into the "Double or Nothing" skill at level 2, which is only effective if you're making her a spy...and then you're awarded with a pair of swords for a general hero.

Actually, once Zeima acquires the Double or Nothing skill at level 2, her skills reset, allowing you to re-invest the ability points in general skills. In addition to the weapons you get (which are quite potent), Zeima also acquires "Fast Learner", making her one of the best generals in the game. I say it's definitely worth it.



Other than that, I agree with the guide in general and follow a very similar approach myself when playing the Forgotten. Only thing I'd add is that I equip my Assassins with a sword and an axe off-hand for the Infantry and Ranged slayer combo. That, and I equip them with "glory or death", which gives them +1 morale for every adjacent enemy. The combination of the item with their acrobat skill is quite potent, making them excellent at disrupting enemy formations, while Mysts manoeuvre around the flanks.



While the Forgotten have one of the most fragile armies, they also have one of the strongest synergies imo. Assassins disrupt formations and attack targets of opportunity, Predatores target heroes or high hp units, while Mysts wipe out more fragile units. And Zeima becomes a powerhouse, capable of dishing out and taking substantial damage.

Thank you KnightofPhoenix for the correction and the additions! I actually hadn't noticed her skill points resetting...not sure how I missed that but that does tend to change the landscape a bit. I suppose going that far into the quests and simply selling off the two quest Predatore since you can't upgrade them would be prudent, I'll have to play with that some more.



I also agree with the synergy and I will incorporate your advice on the Assassin composition into my playstyle and the guide as well. Thanks for the feedback!

Good job, man. I also agree a lot with your guide.



Regarding the quest: I also don´t think it´s great past the point you get Ziema; and unless using her as a spy is exactly what I need by the point I find her (which to be fair is pretty common), I don´t bother too much with not following it through. The glassteel blades are pretty sweet, but most Ruin Quest swords are better, even Ayah´s arm or wtv. Double Shard of Icarael is incomparably better.

Anyway, either you´re using her as a Spy at first to make use of the required traits or you´re running around paying for a weak hero with useless traits. The problem of using her as a Spy is that there´s always that slim chance that in your second attempt at stealing things she´s caught and imprisoned for god knows how long - which is precisely what happened in the only game I won with them against the AI lately, one I posted a while back.



Regarding assassins: After tier 1 iron, i´ve been using axes with swords in the offhand. I find that the extra initiative is more decisive than the extra defense.

BPrado is right, sword on the off-hand is better. I only discovered this recently, as I bothered studying the stats more meticulously. Slipped my mind, thanks for reminding!



I have to say though that while there are better weapons, the double glassteel weapons are still quite good and can be equipped relatively quickly at little cost. But to me, the main benefit for following through that quest is for Zeima to get "Fast Learner." That's not going to make her on the same level as the Drakken starting general, but it's a pretty damn good trait. That, and you get to re-spend all her ability points however way you please.



In my (limited SP) experience, I found her one of the best generals to have.

Thanks again guys. I'll play around with the quests and Ziema a bit and see if the pay-off is worth the investment. It's a significant investment to get that far into the quests and honestly seems to do more to set you back than to help you, but if you're going for a strong military campaign, getting Ziema set up as a competent general might be worth the investment. I'll play around with it and get back to you guys. Thanks again!

Thank you for this guide, Avilyss! Very well laid out. I personally suck at the Forgotten but I do enjoy the research buyout mechanic. I'll be trying your suggestions and hope I don't get roflgibbed as quickly. :P

Thank you for this post, it seems to give me a good base to win as the forgotten. I have another question though, if i steal a research, does that make the next research i buy more expensive as well?

Cabz wrote:
Thank you for this post, it seems to give me a good base to win as the forgotten. I have another question though, if i steal a research, does that make the next research i buy more expensive as well?

Yes. The cost of research is determined by the number of researches you currently have and which era they're in, it doesn't matter how you acquired them. The exception is any "bonus" researches you've obtained through quests.

A great guide - thank you so much!



Now do the same for all the other factions!

Xenophon wrote:
A great guide - thank you so much!



Now do the same for all the other factions!

I appreciate the feedback! However, I am by no means an expert player and I am quite certain there are players here with more experience (both with the game itself and with the other factions) whom could put together a much better guide than myself. I am working on a "general tips" guide that I may or may not publish and I'll happily put up some thoughts on other factions as I spend more time playing them. I mostly put this guide up because so many people seem to be struggling with this faction and it's my favorite faction, so I was hoping I could help even a little bit.

Thorough, in-depth guide to the faction.



Excellent read. I'd be curious to see others come forward and give us guides on their favorite factions, that'd be invaluable for newbies and people willing to switch factions and try something new.

Frogsquadron wrote:
Thorough, in-depth guide to the faction.



Excellent read. I'd be curious to see others come forward and give us guides on their favorite factions, that'd be invaluable for newbies and people willing to switch factions and try something new.

As an eternal newb myself, I'd totally agree!



I know that guides for other factions exist on this forum, but not on this level of detail or comprehensiveness - that's what makes this guide stand out so much.

Avilyss wrote:


Leech Trade Routes

(Level 5, Roving Clans)

Pretty much self explanatory. Not only does this severely hamper the Roving Clans' victory progress but it substantially boosts your ability to make bank and have a Dust storage.

I've never seen this option before in the infiltration options. Does it only appear when infiltrating the Roving Clans or is it hidden somewhere?

Great guide!

I can't wait for tomorrow to try out your tips