[Draft] Unit Comparison Table

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DEVFrogsquadron

Broken

Frogsquadron / François (\franswa\) "I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas."

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DEVFrogsquadron

Broken

52 300g2g pts

9 years ago

Feb 11, 2016, 1:31:17 PM

lilyophelia wrote:
They changed based on era, BPrado. Their stats are very close to the foragers, except they tend to be a little stronger than foragers.

That is correct. Base stats are the Foragers', except levelling up with eras.

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MetallEater

Lifter

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MetallEater

Lifter

1 500g2g pts

9 years ago

Apr 18, 2016, 12:06:56 AM

Who knows or can tell how to find the cost of units of minor fractions?

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Ravaeron

Remnant Lord

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Ravaeron

Remnant Lord

14 300g2g pts

8 years ago

Oct 12, 2016, 7:21:42 PM

Thanks for the effort!

However, there is something seriously wrong with this forum post! Dimensions etc are really weird, I had to scroll down for minutes to get to the table..

Ravaeron

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phanemy

Brave Meat

Shadows is everywhere

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phanemy

Brave Meat

55 900g2g pts

8 years ago

Oct 12, 2016, 7:33:22 PM

it's like this since the maj of Game2Gether platform :/

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

Empire VIP

"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

Empire VIP

41 100g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 16, 2016, 11:32:44 AM

I think this should be stickied, it is a valuable resource.

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Valadeus

Lord Protector

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Valadeus

Lord Protector

27 600g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 12:02:25 AM

So, I've been slowly putting together a table showing the base units compared to one another. It's still very much a work in progress but I figured I'd post it here in rough form to give some indication of what I'm doing. The table is broken down into several columns showing information about each unit with the units' traits at the very end. I'll post a legend for the "cost" and a definition list for the "traits" following this post.

As this is still a work in progress, expect it to be updated frequently and I am, of course, open to suggestions. It should be stated the "speed" column is out-of-battle movement speed, I'll add battle movement later but that takes a bit more time.

The final work will be an attached spreadsheet for download, which will include all of this information, as well as a unit comparison tab where you can show units side-by-side and a search field where you can type in a certain trait and it will show you which units and equipment have that trait. That is still some time away though.

DISCLAIMER:The costs are their base values before any variables are added. Production costs increase throughout the game based on the current era, number of cities and other variables. The values listed in this chart are the base values with no variables attached.

[TD="width:135,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]FACTION[/TD]

[TD="width:118,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]UNIT NAME[/TD]

[TD="width:66,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]TYPE[/TD]

[TD="width:233,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]COST[/TD]

[TD="width:36,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]LIFE[/TD]

[TD="width:51,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]SPEED[/TD]

[TD="width:60,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]ATTACK[/TD]

[TD="width:68,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]DEFENSE[/TD]

[TD="width:77,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]INITIATIVE[/TD]

[TD="width:64,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]DAMAGE[/TD]

[TD="width:576,bgcolor:#DDDDDD"]TRAITS[/TD]

Wild Walkers	Settler	Infantry	134(I) 1(W)	24	4	22	9	18	10	Colonization, Blocked Growth, Unsellable, Forest Rage, Cavalry Slayer 2
Wild Walkers	Dekari Ranger	Ranged	78(I)	60	4	51	18	35	22	Long Range, Forest Rage, Point Blank Power 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1
Wild Walkers	Agache Shaman	Support	30(I)	52	4	22	36	30	16	Range, Bark Skin 3, Forest Rage, Slow Down
Wild Walkers	Tenei Walker	Infantry	140(I)	180	4	34	46	18	42	Forest Rage, Sweep Strike Back 2

Broken Lords	Settler	Infantry	134(I) 1(W)	24	4	22	9	18	10	Colonization, Unsellable, Dust Care, Cavalry Slayer 2
Broken Lords	Stalwarts	Infantry	78(I)	140	4	27	52	10	22	Dust Care, Soul Leech, Fast 1, Infantry Slayer 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1
Broken Lords	Ryder	Cavalry	60(I)	108	6	37	34	22	32	Dust Care, Charge 1, Life Drain 2, Slow 1, Stun 1
Broken Lords	Dust Bishop	Support	120(I)	144	4	14	28	6	34	Range, Dust Care, Life Siphon, Exhaustion 1

Vaulters/Mezari	Settler	Infantry	134(I) 1(W)	24	4	22	9	18	10	Colonization, Blocked Growth, Unsellable, Cavalry Slayer 2
Vaulters/mezari	Marine	Ranged	98(I)	68	4	47	22	21	34	Range, Technolover, Point Blank Power 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1
Vaulters/Mezari	Dawn Officer	Cavalry	80(I)	116	6	27	38	33	22	Charge 1, Fast 2, Technolover, Ranged Slayer 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1
Vaulters/Mezari	Titan	Infantry	140(I)	156	4	33	56	14	30	Defensive Impulse, Slow 1, Technolover, Infantry Slayer 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1

Necrophages	Settler	Infantry	134(I) 1(W)	24	4	22	9	18	10	Colonization, Blocked Growth, Unsellable, Disease Immunity, Cavalry Slayer 2
Necrophages	Forager	Infantry	78(I)	100	4	31	38	31	24	Disease 1, Disease Immunity, Ranged Slayer 1, Block 1, Sharp Sense 1
Necrophages	Necrodrone	Flying	144(I)	124	6	48	36	30	46	Disease Immunity, Disease 1, Fly, Sweep Strike Back 2
Necrophages	Proliferator	Support	120(I)	52	4	22	32	26	32	Range, Disease Immunity, Parasitism, Vaccination, Sweep Strike Back 2

Ardent Mages	Settler	Infantry	134(I) 1(W)	24	4	22	9	18	10	Ardent Fire, Colonization, Blocked Growth, Unsellable, Cavalry Slayer 2
Ardent Mages	Telsem Warlock	Infantry

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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41 100g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 10:21:39 AM

As I said in another thread, you are an angel.

Very well done! And thank you so much for all the effort and time you've put.

Question. Since tier 3 units are always going to be level 2 when first unlocked, is the cost shown here taking their level into account or is level also removed like every other variable? If so, how were you able to see their cost at level 1?

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Valadeus

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Valadeus

Lord Protector

27 600g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 12:46:46 PM

The level is removed like every other variable. The costs you see listed are found from starting a new game and before you build your first city, go to the unit editor and edit your starting units (Settler and starting units) and then going to the research screen and hovering over their research module. It will display their current industry cost under your empire's current conditions (no city, level 1, no other variables) which is as close as I can get to the raw industry cost without parsing the game's data files.

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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41 100g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 12:51:55 PM

I see. Excellent!

Does seem like the Eneqa wing is a bit over priced, from the looks of things.

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Valadeus

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Valadeus

Lord Protector

27 600g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 3:59:26 PM

I agree. It's a powerful unit but I'm not sure it's worth quite the price. To be fair, I haven't play tested its effectiveness too much yet so I'm not sure how well it holds up.

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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41 100g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 4:24:42 PM

I've played Ardent Mages several times (only sp), and from my experience, the Eneqa Wing is quite a potent unit. A good flyer with good stats, filling the role of tank in the Ardent Mage military. The fact that it revives makes it quite durable, esp if supported by a Drakken hero.

That said, I don't think the 250

is justified, esp when comparable units are much cheaper (the necrodrone, for instance, is stat wise quite similar, with the added benefit of being already researched and having disease. And yet it is still more than a 100

cheaper). Personally, I think a 200

cost for the Eneqa Wing is more appropriate. Still expensive by virtue of its survivability, but not excessively so.

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Xenophon

Newcomer

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Xenophon

Newcomer

100g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 4:47:06 PM

This is an amazing resource; thank you very much.

One clerical, formatting suggestion: I think most stats are intuitively linked in pairs and hence it would be better if they are next to each other for quick unit appraisals. So instead of "LIFE SPEED ATTACK DEFENSE INITIATIVE DAMAGE" format, it would be better to have something like "LIFE DEFENSE DAMAGE ATTACK SPEED INITIATIVE," etc. So if you want to measure a unit's tanking capacity, the relevant stats (HPs and Defense) would be right next to one another.

Of course, this may matter more for someone like me, 1) who is old and have eye-sight issues; and 2) who has a tendency to over-rationalize or systematize everything!

Also, are these all up-dated stats? I haven't used Sisters in several games, but I thought they got a more substantial boost than what you've posted. But I could obviously be wrong, given my fleeting memory - and mind! - these days.

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Xenophon

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Xenophon

Newcomer

100g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 4:49:21 PM

KnightofPhoenix wrote:
I've played Ardent Mages several times (only sp), and from my experience, the Eneqa Wing is quite a potent unit. A good flyer with good stats, filling the role of tank in the Ardent Mage military. The fact that it revives makes it quite durable, esp if supported by a Drakken hero.

That said, I don't think the 250 is justified, esp when comparable units are much cheaper (the necrodrone, for instance, is stat wise quite similar, with the added benefit of being already researched and having disease. And yet it is still more than a 100 cheaper). Personally, I think a 200 cost for the Eneqa Wing is more appropriate. Still expensive by virtue of its survivability, but not excessively so.

I don't use them, because they look so goddarn-awful.

Really, I want to play more races than just Vaulters/Mezari and Wild Walkers, but the faction aesthetics - yikes. But then I must be the only TBS/4x player who make faction/race choices heavily on the basis of aesthetics.

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Valadeus

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Valadeus

Lord Protector

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9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 4:58:00 PM

Xenophon wrote:
This is an amazing resource; thank you very much.

Thank you, happy to help.

Xenophon wrote:
One clerical, formatting suggestion: I think most stats are intuitively linked in pairs and hence it would be better if they are next to each other for quick unit appraisals. So instead of "LIFE SPEED ATTACK DEFENSE INITIATIVE DAMAGE" format, it would be better to have something like "LIFE DEFENSE DAMAGE ATTACK SPEED INITIATIVE," etc. So if you want to measure a unit's tanking capacity, the relevant stats (HPs and Defense) would be right next to one another.

A good suggestion. I put them in the order they were on the unit display in-game but I think I can shuffle it around to put the paired stats together, I'll look into it.

Xenophon wrote:
Also, are these all up-dated stats? I haven't used Sisters in several games, but I thought they got a more substantial boost than what you've posted. But I could obviously be wrong, given my fleeting memory - and mind! - these days.

Yes, these are straight out of the game with the latest patches, updates and expansions.

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

Empire VIP

41 100g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 5:06:11 PM

Xenophon wrote:
I don't use them, because they look so goddarn-awful.

Interesting, I think the Eneqa Wing is one of the most interesting and cool looking models in the game. The Ardent Mage aesthetics in general are quite attractive to me.

Would it help if I tell you that the Eneqa Wings are most likely not birds, but in fact Ateshi Zealots that have been mutilated, mutated, and transformed beyond recognition, burning agonizingly in perpetuity (listen carefully to how they scream in game)?

The subtle similarities between both the Zealot and Eneqa models is a very cool little detail that speaks volumes.

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Xenophon

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Xenophon

Newcomer

100g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 5:10:00 PM

KnightofPhoenix wrote:

Would it help if I tell you that the Eneqa Wings are most likely not birds, but in fact Ateshi Zealots that have been mutilated, mutated, and transformed beyond recognition, burning agonizingly in perpetuity (listen carefully to how they scream in game)?

That makes it worse!

I am a conservative guy, so I'd prefer units that look "normal" and have conventional backgrounds (of course, with normalcy and conventionality within a fantasy context overall). For instance, Broken Lords is a faction I'd love on the mechanics alone (I like tanky characters/units in both RPG/TBS games and hate the "range" game), but they are quasi-undead, so it's a no go. So I am doomed to weakling shooters of the Vaulters and Wild Walkers!

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Valadeus

Lord Protector

If you want the world to be a better place, begin by showing the world what that means.

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Valadeus

Lord Protector

27 600g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 5:35:30 PM

Technically the Broken Lords are Dust-altered individuals who have foregone physical form and exist as Dust apparitions enchanting suits of armor. They're not really "undead" so much as "unliving."

Think "spirit Paladins" in terms of a fantasy setting and they're a lot easier to stomach for a conservative guy like yourself.

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BPrado

Newcomer

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BPrado

Newcomer

3 000g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 6:54:44 PM

Enequa Wings on manual battles are the single most annoying unit in the game, for the fact that you can only kill one of them if you "one shot" them during your turn. Any unit can occupy the tile in which the egg is, making it invulnerable until that unit dies. Manual also implies stun, so either you make little use of morale or risk getting your main body of army to be useless for half the battle. Enequa Wings have high stats for everything, making morale extremely efficient (and glory or death, and shared wisdom). The more you damage it, the more attack it will have to go through your own morale´s defense. It´s not overpriced.

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natev

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natev

Newcomer

200g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 8:17:51 PM

Thank you so much BPrado!

I'm curious about how level impacts these stats (there must be some kind of straight improvement?) as well as how +% improvements work... No, I haven't bothered to figure this out yet

I'm a big fan of Enequa Wing when playing as AM. They're the one AM unit that has some survivability, and they're the only unit that gets any play out of the Ardent Fire capacity. They can also steamroll really well because of their on-death heal. For sure, they need to be used with some healthy stun-spell artillery support, and I've had some occasions where healthy eggs have failed to survive the battle for some reason. (However, I've never really figured out a way to take advantage of the buggy egg behavior, and even then, another unit doesn't quite guarantee invulnerability, there's some weird stuff going on with orders that means that units can hit either the egg or another unit on top of the egg.)

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

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"One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars." - Kain

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VIPKnightofPhoenix

Empire VIP

41 100g2g pts

9 years ago

Jan 12, 2016, 9:44:02 PM

BPrado wrote:
Manual also implies stun, so either you make little use of morale or risk getting your main body of army to be useless for half the battle.

That, in my humble and not as experienced opinion, is more indication that the stun spell needs to have a substantial increase in price and have it be a one time use only (or have it so only AM heroes can cast it), as opposed to justifying the cost of the Eneqa. For sure Eneqa wing cost reduction needs to be supplemented by an increase in the cost of the stun spell (which I prefer over a nerf).

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[Draft] Unit Comparison Table

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