Horatio Update - Focus on the tech tree

I have been toying with Privateer Fleet option while playing as the United Empire. I feel there should be a space for a separate base construction for Privateer Fleets where they can be interacted and re-designed. The other AI players will see the base as neutral/pirate domain. The base can be a single planet like Traitor's Reach or could be just a outpost which could not be upgraded to colony; I dont know whether this can be implemented within current development plans, but it will be nice and will add some flexibility in tactical layer of the game. Alternatively The privateer fleet base can act as a totally separate faction like other minor factions; just they are loyal to the player (Relationship declination set to zero). This option may be faction specific. 

Fantastic news.

I really do not like how the player no longer has the freedom of being able to research everything it pains me to say it, but I thought something as small as this wouldn't really effect how much I like the game. Yet since the Horatio update i loved everything that was added until I came to the tech tree and found out I can not research everything. I really hope the devs do not keep this restriction for final release. I do appreciate the return of the round tech tree, and the addition of a new faction. I do not like, actually hate would be better word having to be restricted between techs I am sorry.  

have to admit at first I did not like the new tech tree was too confusing.  I will say the old one is better for noobies, but this one overall is MUCH more interesting to interact with. Huge improvement.  I expect though you will have tutorials ready for noobs once the game is released which would take care of the confusing aspect of it. great job! 

crystalis wrote:

Looks amazing!

I also really like the look of the new Tech Tree. I enjoy the flexibility it provides when developing your empire. The Tech Tree in Endless Legend feels more linear to me (not a bad thing), but the immersive quests, landscape exploration, minor faction smashing (or dodging) complements the linear feel. I enjoy the idea of choosing between certain techs and the "shortcutting" aspect. I look forward to exploring this redeveloped aspect. Keep up the good work!

I did not play this yet, but this looks much better than it was before.

I quite liked ES1 techtree. This one should meet expectations.

All is great, however I still hope there will be an alternative to inflation. It is not very intuitive for a sci-fi setting. And personally, it feels unpleasant.

Ohhh men look that tech tree!!

About exclusion links in the military quadrant: we understand your worries and I can give you some elements I gave to the VIPs to explain that you will not be stuck by them.

• First of all, we tweaked the modules and there are no real “hard counters” (it was never really the case but we “softened” them even more^^): e.g. shields also partially stop projectile weapons and never completely stop energy weapons. I did some tests and with average weapons and defenses, the difference between laser and kinetic effective damage against a shield for example, is around 25–35%.
• Even if you have no more access to a strategic module technology, you still have the basic modules to answer all situations (maybe a bit less powerful, but cheaper!).
• Even if you “blindly” research one of these exclusive technologies (probably based on the strategic resources you get), you still have 3 other stages to change your mind and unlock other types of modules.
• As you said you can still trade locked technologies and that’s very interesting because it’s creating new diplomatic opportunities!

Finally, about the rationale of these exclusive technologies: we really like the idea to compel the player to specialize and have a unique tech tree for each game. To have interesting battles, we need to balance 2 things: give the player the ability to adapt to every situation (at a cost, if the changes are important) and encourage the player to specialize in a direction to become predictable (but allow them to create strong synergies). This second part is essential to give something to the other player to create counter-strategies (to avoid making random decisions) and give interest to the first part. Obviously the player should be able to reduce their predictability at a cost. As you can imagine, it’s a very fragile balance and we still have work to do, with your help, to tweak it.

Yueran wrote:

"Exclusion links mean that researching one of the technologies in the pair means being unable to research the other. This way, players have to make a choice early on, and only through diplomacy will they be able to shore up this specific weakness."

So, for example, let's say I chose to go with Titanium (which locks out the other resource). Later on, my inner tech-hoarder is unleashed and I decide that I want to get the locked out techs. Does this mean I can trade for them via diplomacy or are they locked out for good (i.e., I can't get them even if I ask for them from allies)?

I think the befenfit of exclusive tech choices is that you could end up with different techs every game. This leads to more variety and is basically a very good idea. Instead of just getting everything you have to choose.

 However at the moment some choices are no real choices as on option is always better than the other:

- the first attacker-ship is always better than the first guard-ship 

- the tech with the exotic rations is a must-have so you never choose the other one

Generally i absolutely love the redesign, and the soft links (reducing costs) between techs are good but in case of ship designs they are pretty useless. If you reasearch advanced hulls of a type without the basic hulls  of that type you get nothing in the ship editor. so you basically HAVE TO unlock the basic hull first. There is no choice: either both techs or none.

Also: How much is the reduction of the links? If techs get more expensive with every tech you research does that mean the second (linked) tech gets cheaper or more expensive overall?

Being forced to use diplomacy to get tech locked behind "exclusion links" feels bad, and saying that I can't go back and research the other branch later doesn't make much sense. Why not make researching the other [excluded] tech take longer instead? I totally understand the desire to make diplomacy more powerful, and possibly make martial research choices more impactful, but this feels like putting a band-aid on a stab wound. Just to get my thinking straight on the matter, am I correct in assuming that the changes made here involve trying to find a place for the new battle card unlocks, trying to limit the tech most players have late game, and trying to encourage more diplomacy?

-Axel

Great work

Looks amazing!

GLORIOUS! I can't wait.

Thank you all for your feedback! 

I feel like having them right there in era 5 makes the other era 5 techs less useful: why research them and enjoy playing with them when you could just research the victory techs and win right away ? In my opinion they should be locked until you have researched other era 5 techs (like a 6th era basically).

• We’re looking into it and plan to release it for Update 3: how to enhance the Science Victory Technology. They indeed need to stand out :)

Add a legend explaining the links, technology type icons and colors. Could pop up by pressing space like the scan view.

• That will be in the release of the Update 2!

I would prefer the thumbnails of the previous tech tree. These were easy to read and after one game I was familiar with the tech tree. Bigger thumbnails are easier to read and understand, these pictures gave a good impression what the tech was about. I get your idea of color coding the icons. This is a good addition. I guess you can't have both. The further away zoom lacks a lot of information. There are only tech circles and lines (either discount or exclusive). There should also be a color coding, otherwise this zoom level is obsolete.
Besides that the new design is really nice.

• We will keep working on the readability in the coming weeks.

Just one recommendation: Please look into the unlock of military techs (weapons and defensive shields/armor). Ressource dependent weapons/armors should not be outdated easily if you advance too quickly into a new era. What I mean for example the titanium weapons tier 1 in era 2 should not be outdated by the standard tier weapons if you unlock era 3. Granted, I haven't looked deeply into this and will try to compare the weapons stats. I will update my post if I see no problem here.

Played a little and notice that the "resource" weapons / defences are way to week for current tech tree set up.

It is even worse then it was before as I get resource costing weapons with worst stats then the standard ones available.

The problem is that you can easily jump to higher level in a given tech.

So I end up with level 1 resource weapons / defences (which are essentially level 2 modules) and having available level 3 basic modules.

• We’re working on the balance of the different modules to not provide this outdated feeling too fast. A lot more has to come with the Update 3 on the battle content, but for the Update 2 we focused on polishing the global game system (using the decks, and retaking how weapons / defences interact together).

I like it a lot. I find it a huge improvement over the previous tech system. I only have one complaint: When researching the technology that gives you new battle cards, it doesn't show you what the cards do (positionally and their effect) but only the names. Until I play enough to have them all memorized I am not really sure if I am picking a smart set of cards for my ship designs or not.

• A few unlocks deserve a better tooltip. That’s something we will look at it soon!

Cheers,

Thank you everyone for your feedback so far. I'll keep passing it on as you post.

Ccoommer wrote:

Yes! This tech tree looks much better. Now change the combat to be like ES1 but with improvements and all my concerns will be addressed. ES combat > EL combat.

Can't wait to play in any case! 

I'm curious how you think combat in Endless Space 2 is similar to Endless Legend? The two are literally nothing alike.

AndreasK wrote:

Add a legend explaining the links, technology type icons and colors. Could pop up by pressing space like the scan view.

I agree with AndreasK. A little bit more visual feedback is needed for the new tech tree.