I was extremely disappointed when I saw how few major factions there were in EL. I will be the same way if it happens in ES2, however I really fear it will be the case. To me, 8 factions is a strict minimum, and less than 10 wouldn't make me happy. The ideal number, for me, would be 12 at start and 2 more per expension. Considering the nice complexity of ES's system, it shouldn't be too difficult to find very altering mechanics that would be enough to make each faction's gameplay unique. And balancing them wouldn't be too difficult, as it would suffice to simply change the numbers. However, of course, I know I will not be satisfied about this. There will probably be only 6-10 factions. Let's just hope 10 rather than 6.



Here are the factions I'd LOVE to see in ES2:

- The Amoeba. They were my favorite faction lore-wise in ES. They are very original and scientifically plausible. In my opinion, they give a very distinctive look to ES's universe.

- The Harmony. I love their aesthetics and personality, as well as their gameplay. Furthermore, they're very important lore-wise.

- The Sowers. An endless relicate, interesting lore-wise and very fun gameplay-wise. Also, I love their non-anthropomorphic aesthetics.

- The Virus. We were given a choice between the Harmony and them for the ES expension; now, I will be very frustrated if we never see them. ES2 is the perfect occasion. Furthermore, they have original and non-anthropomorphic aesthetics, which I like.

- The Broken Lords, or another strong Endless-feeling faction. This would really stick to ES2's ambience; and I would love to see the Broken Lords, as they would at the same time be knights in space, and not too much fantasy-like.

- As some people suggested in the thread, a living-planet race, with only one system to mimic the Cultists of EL. That's a very inspiring idea.

- And of course, more unkown and totally new factions. I love Amplitude's creativity. I would probably be disappointed if there weren't at least two.

I let the rest open.



Now, the factions I don't especially like but think should be in ES2 anyway:

- The Sophons. They are emblematic, I really don't see ES without them.

- The United Empire. They never were very original, but I guess any sci-fi universe needs a big dystopian human faction. They could be replaced by some other human faction, maybe.

- The Cravers. Again, every sci-fi universe "needs" a zerg-like faction. This role could be taken by the Virus though, maybe.

I wouldn't be disappointed, though, if all three disappeared to let the place to better factions and if there were no humans at all.



Some factions I would like to see in ES, but whose disappearance I could accept:

- The Pilgrims. I really like their spiritual and almost anarchistic aesthetics and lore. However, they are humans and their gameplay doesn't attract me, so that's two things I dislike about them.

- The Horatios. I love them in every way, but they are very gimmicky, so it would be okay if they didn't appear in ES2, especially if we didn't get boring human factions instead.



About the other ES factions:

- I never really liked the Hissho; they don't feel sci-fi enough to me. I like their japanese feeling, but it's a bit uninspired too. I really wouldn't miss them if they disappeared.

- The Sheredyn never had a real identity in my perception of ES. I could easily see them squished inside the United Empire, even though I always like it when there are more factions. They didn't feel different enough in ES, but it's better to have them than to have nothing.

- The Automaton are interesting both lore-wise and gameplay-wise, but they're humanoid, and I dislike it. It feels uninspired. I almost could forget their existence.

- I never liked the Vaulters and would be happy if they disappeared to let the place for something more interesting, unless it's just one more faction (as in: a bonus) and none of the factions I like is scrapped.



The factions that WILL definitely appear in ES2:

- The Vaulters.

- The Sophons.

- The Cravers.

- Another human faction, probably the United Empire.



I really have no idea about the rest, but if there are only 4 more slots, I will definitely be disappointed, as none of those I just cited is among the numerous ones I love.

KnightofPhoenix wrote:
That's not really true though, Horatio is not just one guy. Horatio is a society of Horatios, that Horatio Prime actually kind of looks down on (because not a single clone is 100% perfect match, and as such are automatically inferior). He just finds them better than non-Horatios.



Horatio society is kind of interesting, where one's rank is determined by how close of a match they are to Horatio Prime, but at the same time be too close and you risk exile or worse. The art book even stated that in Horatio hierarchy, several Emperors exist, because Horatio Prime considers himself above such a title and that emperors kneel to him. The ridiculous (and hilarious and awesome) factor aside, I am actually intrigued by Horatio society.



And it would present interesting asymmetric gameplay, if their political system / methods of managing conquered peoples are substantially different, in addition to their cloning, and having huge population and influence.

This is neat stuff. You just made more fan of the Horatio. I wonder if ES2 intra-faction politics will vary from faction to faction. The Sophons one shown in the preview is supposedly based on a democratic (or technocratic?) system, but what about autocratic, plutocratic, or Craver-like hivemind ones ? Hmmm, questions, questions.

I'd personally like if each faction can adopt at least 2 systems, that make sense with regards to lore.



In any case, I do think Horatio lore is undervalued. Can you people imagine living in a society of clones? And not a sort of collectivist communitarian society, but a highly competitive and hierarchical one, where each individual Horatio struggles to fit into the Horatio standards of beauty and excellence, while at the same time strive to achieve a level of uniqueness and individuality so as to establish themselves among the rabble? And that Horatios look upon Horatio Prime as a god, while he finds them the best thing there is in the universe after himself and as such worthy only of mild acceptance. I imagine that some Horatios would feel a bit of secret resentment towards Horatio Prime, certainly alienation because you have an entire people who have been created with the sole purpose of helping Horatio Prime stroke his ego among other things. What kind of existential crisis would the particularly individualist Horatios experience?



Horatio looks funny as a faction at first sight, and it actually is because at the end of the day, it's all about Horatio masturbating. But the social implications of that are interesting and worth exploring, hopefully through the faction quest if Horatio makes it as a faction (which I hope it does).



As far as gameplay and political system go, I can see Horatio either being a feudal system where each "emperor" represents a demographic and Horatio Prime is not that directly involved in politics but is more concerned with destroying every mirror that has had his reflection on it (yes that's canon, it's in the artbook...), or an autocracy where Horatio Prime is directly in charge and involved.

Horatio would be pleased to have such staunch supporters, even among mere humans.

I think it would seems normal to Him that enven inferior being recognise His magnificence. (even if the Amoeba seems more beautifull to me)

Many people here have voiced a concern with "too bland, human factions," but I believe they have a place. Namely, as an entry point for new players. Most games benefit from having a faction with which new players can identify or at least relate or understand.

Of course, ideally that familiarity would only be a thin veneer that starts to crumble as you learn more about the faction, until you find something unexpected buried inside it.

And of course, the identities of different factions should be backed up by gameplay elements.

I completely disagree with the idea that the "human factions" are too bland or need to be merged or thrown out. A lot of people don't connect to funny looking aliens, they don't want to play as them. If you look at the play stats for similar games, the vast majority of players only ever play the human faction, even when it's just one "boring" faction without any interesting mechanics, that humans so often are in these games. They only play the humans, they don't even try the other races. I think it's important the game maintains multiple human factions with diverse play styles and lore. I find myself in the middle, I am willing to play the alien races, but I prefer the humans.



That said I wouldn't be opposed to the removal of the Pilgrims or Horatio, not because they aren't interesting but because I just didn't like them as much. It would be interesting if they were replaced by the Ardent Mages or Wild Walkers. You might step back and shake your head at that, but I think it would be very interesting to re-imagine those races as a high-tech space faring people. The Wild Walkers could have like living ships, grown from seeds instead of built. The Ardent Mages could reinforce the magi-tech setting of the game, dust "magic" was present in ES1 but it was sort of glossed over and none of the factions really embraced it. I think there's a hole there that needs to be filled in ES2, and Ardent would be perfect for it.



Personally I am a bit torn, on one hand I really want to see all of the ES1 races return and see all the EL races added and evolved to fit the setting of the game. On the other hand, I really want to see the factions even more diverse than ES1 or EL, with many more tech and gameplay variations, and that sort of extra detail added to each would require far fewer factions overall. I could live with as few as 6 factions if they had deep differences, unique tech trees and buildings and such, with multiple strategies possible for each.



What I think we will see though, is UE, Sophons, Cravers, Vaulters, 2-3 new factions, and maybe Broken Lords or one other EL faction.

I'm surprised by the lack of support the Pilgrims have. They are one of my favorite factions, and frankly one of the few factions I was really drawn to from the start (the others being Sophons, Hissho and Sowers).



I can relate to the 'too many human factions in space with all its options', but I'd much rather keep the Pilgrims and lose out on the Sheredyn. I find the Pilgrims really compliment the UE in the sense that the UE feels like a totalitarian state, ruled by monarchs and oligarchs, eager to surveillance its citizens, trying to outroot any disloyalty. A state where people follow etiquette, the law and are punished if they don't.



The Pilgrims are the complete opposite of this UE; free-thinking and trusting, with little focus on ruthless power or control, spiritual instead of industrial, and merchant instead of militant. I find these two factions to show opposite sides in humanity. While not a very subtle distinction, I'd never play a human faction if the Pilgrims were out of the game. UE and Sherendyn are not to my taste at all.



I have never seen the Horatio as humans; I'd consider them only humanoid.



The Vaulters are a Dev-thing, and come with their entire oeuvre. But they did not attract me in ES (they do in EL, where I found them more fitting to the setting).

Thijs wrote:
I'm surprised by the lack of support the Pilgrims have. They are one of my favorite factions, and frankly one of the few factions I was really drawn to from the start (the others being Sophons, Hissho and Sowers).



I can relate to the 'too many human factions in space with all its options', but I'd much rather keep the Pilgrims and lose out on the Sheredyn. I find the Pilgrims really compliment the UE in the sense that the UE feels like a totalitarian state, ruled by monarchs and oligarchs, eager to surveillance its citizens, trying to outroot any disloyalty. A state where people follow etiquette, the law and are punished if they don't.



The Pilgrims are the complete opposite of this UE; free-thinking and trusting, with little focus on ruthless power or control, spiritual instead of industrial, and merchant instead of militant. I find these two factions to show opposite sides in humanity. While not a very subtle distinction, I'd never play a human faction if the Pilgrims were out of the game. UE and Sherendyn are not to my taste at all.



I have never seen the Horatio as humans; I'd consider them only humanoid.



The Vaulters are a Dev-thing, and come with their entire oeuvre. But they did not attract me in ES (they do in EL, where I found them more fitting to the setting).

I agree completely, I also find the Pilgrims interesting and cool, and I'd much rather have them than the Sheredyn or the Vaulters. I like the idea of a faction that is primarily interested in exploration and has a religious twist to it, it would add to the ambiance of the game. That, and I found them fun to play, with an excellent early game, great mobility, and awesome heroes. The only thing I'd change is make their ability to pack up and leave a system a little more interesting / useful (the RC also suffer from how circumstantial that ability is).



If they must include the Vaulters, I'd be in favor of having them merge with the Pilgrims. It would not be against the lore either, both seem to be interested in exploration.

Hey couldn't the Cultists join as a major faction ?(this sounds so stupid but please continue to read) I mean they want to find the Endless and kill'em and could have very uniques traumatising ships and an ability like in Legend but instead of having only 1 city, they only have a planet but can "merge" other planets into it and make a huge multi ecosystem "super-planet"(or at least a very very big one).

KnightofPhoenix wrote:
I agree completely, I also find the Pilgrims interesting and cool, and I'd much rather have them than the Sheredyn or the Vaulters. I like the idea of a faction that is primarily interested in exploration and has a religious twist to it, it would add to the ambiance of the game. That, and I found them fun to play, with an excellent early game, great mobility, and awesome heroes. The only thing I'd change is make their ability to pack up and leave a system a little more interesting / useful (the RC also suffer from how circumstantial that ability is).



If they must include the Vaulters, I'd be in favor of having them merge with the Pilgrims. It would not be against the lore either, both seem to be interested in exploration.

I found the Pilgrim playstyle really to my taste as well, and have preformed some of the best games with them. It's mainly diplomatic/exploration oriented, but not unable to bring a big blow to your enemies when needed.

I do agree that some of their skills and characteristics are a bit.. underwhelming. I personally have never used their ability to raze a system and leave. I found it usually far too late in-game to decide whether or not my home system should be elsewhere. And early in-game it really hampers your initial growth to look around for a better place.



Oh well, let's hope Amplitude knows what they're doing and bring the Pilgrims over to ES2.

Some of the last posts are about how most people don't like playing as alien factions, even if that is true, you HAVE to play as the Cravers at least once.

I'd say I preferred the alien races over human races, until I played as Vaulters (love their special technologies and benefits). Sheredyn would be 2nd favorite human race only since they have the ability for opponent to never retreat during battle (but the dust tech they have is very useful too).

Probably the only faction I never really liked was Harmony since I couldn't use Dust at all. Couldn't hire heroes (main battle advantage for me), couldn't retrofit ships (need to build new ones every time you upgrade), etc. I was like "can't do it" (personally at least).

Thijs wrote:
I found the Pilgrim playstyle really to my taste as well, and have preformed some of the best games with them. It's mainly diplomatic/exploration oriented, but not unable to bring a big blow to your enemies when needed.

I do agree that some of their skills and characteristics are a bit.. underwhelming. I personally have never used their ability to raze a system and leave. I found it usually far too late in-game to decide whether or not my home system should be elsewhere. And early in-game it really hampers your initial growth to look around for a better place.



Oh well, let's hope Amplitude knows what they're doing and bring the Pilgrims over to ES2.

I actually have used the Pilgrims special ability. I'd build up industry buildings on home planet then "evacuate" which leaves 1 population per planet with no buildings except specialization (which I made industry) then plant on next planet to quickly build specializations and colonize all planets then do it again. Basically I used it to quickly colonize a lot of systems and planets in a short time at beginning of game.

Griffon wrote:


I actually have used the Pilgrims special ability. I'd build up industry buildings on home planet then "evacuate" which leaves 1 population per planet with no buildings except specialization (which I made industry) then plant on next planet to quickly build specializations and colonize all planets then do it again. Basically I used it to quickly colonize a lot of systems and planets in a short time at beginning of game.

Do you mean in the same system? That's an interesting strategy for the errant fleet, leapfrogging like that. It certainly would make it easier than convoying to a new system.

I hope they include the horatio or the amoeba those were my favorite ones specially the horatio.

From WWCF interview:

Some questions from the community. Will faction based quests & storylines be returning in Endless Space 2?

Yes! It’s something we did a lot in Legend that we loved, it’s also a great way to discover your faction and the identity of the faction. Through the quests you can also unlock some powerful things by doing different gameplay; it’s not just building stuff, we have politics and you’ll have to discover your people’s beliefs. There will be a lot of that, and it will allow you, if you want, to enjoy more of the game, it’s like eight campaigns if you want to see it that way.

Read more: http://wccftech.com/endless-space-2-interview-romain-de-waubert-de-genlis/#ixzz3qomXwI1l







What exactly means with the last sentence. Eight campaigns --> eight factions?



And if means eight factions and probably they'll put new ones, are some factions out to put the new ones?

Well, eight different factions at launch seems reasonable, given that ES1 started with eight factions, and Endless Legend also had 8 factions planned before the faction creation competition

Of course, this would mean they would have to take out some factions. I wonder which factions they will be.

I'm pleased to hear they want to push the asymmetry further, though.

Regarding the asymmetry, I remember reading online somewhere we want to have it land somewhere between Endless Space's and Endless Legend's. Have the gameplay differences not be as dramatic as they could be in Legend, but definitely push it further than Space.



And I'm not surprised you picked up on Romain's answer. I'm not sure we're ready to say more than what was said, so I'll refrain from commenting.

I found eight factions reasonable. Was like this in ES1 and EL and I got a lot of fun until more factions were released.

What I mean is that 8 factions can be understand as someone is in and someone is out, as I hope there will be new ones.



And knowing that, my bets are for Vaulters and Empire. the first are iconic for Amplitude, the seconds are this distopian human faction that every sci-fy game needs.

My wishes for the other four: Broken Lords, Harmony (I WANT the battle between the dust-dependent faction and the dust-allergic), Horatio (not my favourite to play, but I always liked their weird background) and the Cultists (I like them a lot in EL)

Of course Sophons and Cravers are confirmed.



Can't wait for the game and for more DLC with new factions

The UE isn't that dust dependent in ES, its more of a high tax industry dependent empire so they aren't the exact opposite to the Harmony as the Sheredyn or BL would be.

A Harmony vs. Broken Lords scenario. I really hope Amplitude takes full advantage of these two naturally-opposing factions. I mean, those two are just asking for an existence-long rivalry.