So I had a thought for Wonder victories, why not make them not just planetary improvements? Say for example one faction's wonder is a Death Star-type ship, and they need to build two of them (or one completely built, but the other only fully operational). So first, it provides an opportunity for faction flavor. Second, their is a cost-benefit to them where you might win via wonder, but you might also win by using your Wonder to attain a different victory condition. Thirdly, it gives a better point of conflict for opposing players. As a thing being built somewhere, you can only fight the empire generally, rushing to a warfare victory or some other condition. But with it being more identifiable and vulnerable, a player could cause a distraction at one point in the galaxy, and then sneak an armada to snipe out the Wonder.



For Diplomacy, I thought that you could have it be a similar thing, i.e. a Diplomatic Wonder victory. The interesting thing being that you would have to take the other player at their word that they were building their half of the requirements (which would be at least partly separate). It would be a shared victory, but with two Empires, it would be easier to defend it.

I really like the idea of wonder victory having actual faction-based overpowered but overpriced wonder improvements/space stations/.... It would probably make late-game more dynamic, and it'd make wonder victory more viable, and it'd differentiate factions more.

Yeah, and it's late tech, so really at that point balance isn't as much of an issue. Part of what makes the game cool is the designs, and part of why I generally go war/Supremacy. It would be much more enticing to go for a wonder victory is there was some visual or gameplay reward associated with it.

Having different Wonder buildings for the different factions could definitely help to flesh them out more. Even if the buildings are all mechanically the same (build 5 to win), different icons, names, and descriptions would go a long way to set apart the endeavors of the different factions.



For the diplomatic victory, I really hope to see a condition that actually relies on you conducting diplomacy. "Form an alliance with at least 50% of other factions in the galaxy and maintain it for at least 20 turns. Declare yourself leader of the Federation. Any factions refusing your declaration form a separate rebel alliance."



The same holds true for Economic Victory. It should be about actually attaining economic control, not just hoarding dust.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:
Having different Wonder buildings for the different factions could definitely help to flesh them out more. Even if the buildings are all mechanically the same (build 5 to win), different icons, names, and descriptions would go a long way to set apart the endeavors of the different factions.



For the diplomatic victory, I really hope to see a condition that actually relies on you conducting diplomacy. "Form an alliance with at least 50% of other factions in the galaxy and maintain it for at least 20 turns. Declare yourself leader of the Federation. Any factions refusing your declaration form a separate rebel alliance."



The same holds true for Economic Victory. It should be about actually attaining economic control, not just hoarding dust.

I actually want to expand on your idea on the diplomatic victory a bit, or rather, explain why I think your idea is a good one.



The first criticism someone might level is: Why would a human player (and by extension, AI) agree to be a part of something that inevitably leads to another's victory. Or, if it is shared, why bother pursuing an individual victory condition. This can be answered with a couple of features and suggestions.

1. The leader of the federation is not permanent. Every so often, say, twenty turns, the leader is switched out through an election process. This would either be like Civ V (percentage of each faction's population equal to a single vote) or just whoever can/is willing to pump the most influence into the process. So there could be a major upset for the person who thought they had the victory (more on specifics of victory later).

2. While part of the alliance, everyone is at least partially obligated to defend each other and otherwise aid in warfare (mutual benefits for number of members and warfare participation, possibly) and free to pursue all other peaceful activities. This frees up more time and resources for someone to pursue a scientific, economic, wonder, etc. victory. In fact, being in a large alliance might make it easier. They just have to fulfill their conditions before the diplomatic victory conditions.



Now, the way to pursue the diplomatic victory condition would be to either a) eliminate all non-alliance faction with combined military force or b) convince remaining non-alliance factions to join alliance. Unfortunately, this also means the last faction will likely have to be annihilated, unless they choose to surrender via joining the alliance. However, the longer they hold out, the higher the chance of the alliance splintering (probably to prevent diplomatic victory and betray the current leader).



That's how I see the system potentially working, anyways.

You know when i first saw that there was a Wonder Victory in this game, I though it had something to do with the Endless Wonders that you find on some planets. How would you feel if that was the condition of the Wonder Victory, to Control and rebuild Majority of the Endless Wonders that are sprinkled throughout the Galaxy, Like if there is nine in play currently you got you rebuild 5 of them and control them. Or have them be rebuilt in steps. Tier 1 gives you some function, Tier 2 even more, Tier 3 full functionality and 1 point towards a wonder victory. That way just having a majority in you space isn't an auto victory.

If we introduce periodic re-elections for the Federation leader, then the Diplomatic victory could be tied to winning several such elections in a row and thus becoming entrenched as the de-facto ruler. At the same time, I would grant bonuses to the federation leader (for example, increased dust income from trade, or a small tribute by the federation members) so that it would be worth pursuing even outside of the victory, so that members would vie for the position.





I also agree that tying the wonder victory into the restoration of Endless Wonders would be a great idea. Though if we want to keep that separate from just conquering all opposition, we might need to add some way to claim control of a wonder without conquering it.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:
If we introduce periodic re-elections for the Federation leader, then the Diplomatic victory could be tied to winning several such elections in a row and thus becoming entrenched as the de-facto ruler. At the same time, I would grant bonuses to the federation leader (for example, increased dust income from trade, or a small tribute by the federation members) so that it would be worth pursuing even outside of the victory, so that members would vie for the position.





I also agree that tying the wonder victory into the restoration of Endless Wonders would be a great idea. Though if we want to keep that separate from just conquering all opposition, we might need to add some way to claim control of a wonder without conquering it.

Yeah, tying it to re-election might make for a better option. I don't know. Both of our ideas sound good to me, just not sure which is most practical/balanced.



As an obsessive builder and lover of wonders, I REALLY like the idea of a wonder victory being tied to the Endless Wonders. I don't think you'd necessarily need to conquer all opposition, just those wonders (while keeping them protected). Better yet, if we're able to trade star systems, make those ridiculous trade deals at the beginning before trade partners realize where you're going with this.

As an obsessive builder and lover of wonders, I REALLY like the idea of a wonder victory being tied to the Endless Wonders. I don't think you'd necessarily need to conquer all opposition, just those wonders (while keeping them protected). Better yet, if we're able to trade star systems, make those ridiculous trade deals at the beginning before trade partners realize where you're going with this.

How about for wonder victory you need X amount of wonders where those wonders could be: natural wonders that you have developed, Endless wonders that you have restored, or faction specific wonders that you built?

(throwing numbers here)If you have a wonder category in all three victory if your missing one of the category you (like natural) then you need to two additional in another category (like endless restoration)



Economic victory needs a lot of work I would like to see it where you need not only but: to have a specified monopoly or x amount trade deals and/or routes making x% of other empire budget

Speaking of Natural Wonders, Hey Amp can we not have a World Tree growing out of a Gas Giant?