I too would have preferred completely different political systems and mechanics depending on faction. However, I understand that can be too difficult / resource intensive.



But I do think it is imperative that the universal political system is portrayed differently depending on faction. What I mean by that is that the name of the political institution and the way things are phrased / presented changes. It would be very weird and immersion breaking frankly if as Cravers, we have a "senate" and we vote for "laws." So while the same mechanic can still exist with the Cravers, it would be called and shown as something different. Perhaps their "senate" is a hive queen collective, with each representing a demographic and their share of "votes" represents how many Cravers they have in their respective hive colony.



Horatio could have Emperors each represent a fiefdom or how much influence they have (in the artbook, emperors rank below Horatio Prime as Feudal lords of sorts). The Hissho could have clans, each representing an ideology....etc.



Please don't end up having a "senate" for everyone, with the same terminology and the same presentation, for the sake of immersion and lore. It might be just fluff, but it is important and should be easy to do.

I like the idea of a galactic senate

But i think it shoul be an achievement or a technology unlockable by those who want diplomatic aproach

Hrmm... As someone who enjoys the Harmony (Whenever I'm not breeding it up as Horatio Affinity) I'm a little worried - it looks as though they won't be added into ES2. I can't really see them (or a major faction constructed similarly) working well with this democratic view...

I'm wondering if you'll add in a faction trait that makes a faction follow a sort of 'hive mind' or something along those lines - a leisurely escape from the politics side for those who may not enjoy, or become overwhelmed by it.



In ES1, I like exploring all play-styles, and it'd be neat to see how a hive-mind faction would interact with others.



Also, I'm a little concerned- No, I'm freakin' terrified of this part:

Laws have to be considered as what we called traits in the previous game: powerful modifiers / game changer abilities.

Does this mean that Custom Factions will not be a thing in ES2?

I absolutely love creating abstract races to dive into game with - one of my favourites being a race using the Harmony appearance (Amoeba Affinity) and possessing Eternal War and Blockade Breakers. Being a 100% trade nation that has no concept of a nation, nor a government body - simply trading with individuals. Worked rather well - I'd like to try and recreate that in ES2 if at all possible.



I would hate to see Custom Factions disappear...

Kingsguard wrote:
I find it super weird that every single faction of the game must play with a "Senate"...



Sounds immersion breaking to have my super-autocratic United Empire ruled by a damn Senate ...

L'État, c'est moi !



Otherwise its a really nice and exciting feature but I feel like it should be available to certain factions with the "Senate" trait only.

Chances are they can manipulate the lore of each faction to legitimize it, like a union of corporations for the UE, or a collectivist hive mind for the Cravers, while still managing to keep the same general effect. Although personally I think it would be interesting to add a few race unique mechanics for the senate's structure and powers.

I find it super weird that every single faction of the game must play with a "Senate"...



Sounds immersion breaking to have my super-autocratic United Empire ruled by a damn Senate ...

L'État, c'est moi !



Otherwise its a really nice and exciting feature but I feel like it should be available to certain factions with the "Senate" trait only.

So they give you some sort of buff law but what about actual politics? Does the Pacifists stop you declaring war,etc..Do factions with the same government have better relations.What about internal issues with going against what the people want.

Can´t wait how this is working in the game.

What ideologies have you removed? I´m curious what your intial idea was.

I found this one part of the document interesting:

Steph'nie wrote:




In order to do that, there are three layers of effects on the population’s ideological votes: The populations’ own cultural inclination, the conditions of the system they live in and the conditions of the empire they preside under.

This causes me to imagine that in a large, late-game empire, where my military is so vast that most of my worlds are safely behind the front lines and are able to live comfortably, those worlds may frown upon further militarization, deeming it unnecessary and counterproductive. In other words, my preferred play style of late-game swamping over everything will be less viable as I'll have to fight my own people in order to fight everyone else.



And I am strangely OK with this.



And slightly aroused.

Nice, curious what others will think of this.

Slowhands wrote:
I think for the Cravers it's pretty clear -- those are not alien populations; those are sources of nourishment and slaves.



And as for the Horatio, there is an uneasy tension in the population between giving menial tasks to someone who looks like Horatio, and imposing menial tasks on someone who looks less like Horatio than you do... Frankly it is easier to have servants and other lower order beings around to handle the drudgery - agriculture, science, construction - while the Horatios focus on creating art (primarily by dressing better and looking more beautiful ).

I thinks the same things about the Horatios, but the real problem is not to integrate the alien: is to make them citizen of the empire. I’m pretty sure that the amoeba will turn their aliens civilian into citizen, but will all empire do the same? It don’t seems to me that the Horatios will allow a non-Horatio to vote.

kratt81 wrote:
Are you going to do something like family trees or lines like in Rome 2 games for factions that have empires? Like for the United Empire? It would be cool if different familes vie for control for the empire and that affects gameplay

For now, we're not going that far. As we have other aspect of management than the Senate, we want to keep that simple.

WhiteWeasel wrote:
Quick question, will the AI diplomacy be improved in ES2? One if the Issues I had in ES was that AI's I was at peace with would make, less than fair offers... I.E asking for a resource I have a monopoly on, a strategic resource that I have one copy of, and even had the audacity to give nothing in return. etc... and then I get an status malice when I reject deals that are clearly in their favor.

We improved the diplomatic AI in Endless Legend, and we'll go further in Endless Space 2!



Cheers,

Quick question, will the AI diplomacy be improved in ES2? One if the Issues I had in ES was that AI's I was at peace with would make, less than fair offers... I.E asking for a resource I have a monopoly on, a strategic resource that I have one copy of, and even had the audacity to give nothing in return. etc... and then I get an status malice when I reject deals that are clearly in their favor.

Are you going to do something like family trees or lines like in Rome 2 games for factions that have empires? Like for the United Empire? It would be cool if different familes vie for control for the empire and that affects gameplay

-6: Will the Elected official (President/Prime Minister/Overlord/Hivemind/Guru?) be a figure head of the faction throughout their term? Such as their portrait/image being on the diplomacy, trade, and/or senate screen.

It will be a very good idea in terms of immersion. I understand that gameplay goes first, but if there's enough time they could make something even better that the representatives in EL diplomatic screen (which I consider one of the best in actual 4X), by changing a bit depending on what ideology is in the government and avoiding identical people (just different colour clothes) when you have two AI with the same faction.

scarab wrote:
HAHA! I got you! Now this is official: Horatio will return.

Did I say so? I'll consider all the faction you consider in as in and whether Horatio are in or not, we need to consider all the existing faction and how they would work within the game. Just in case we want them sooner or later.



If I'd leak any info, I'll get kill by marketing people immediately... And nobody wants to face Steph

HAHA! I got you! Now this is official: Horatio will return.

I thinks the same things about the Horatios, but the real problem is not to integrate the alien: is to make them citizen of the empire. I’m pretty sure that the amoeba will turn their aliens civilian into citizen, but will all empire do the same? It don’t seems to me that the Horatios will allow a non-Horatio to vote.

We have our idea on that, but I can't tell you more on that for now...

-1: Would sower population(s) contribute to more industry compared to sophon population(s)?

Yes we have this kind of effects. But more will be told on the population in a future GDD.

-1(b): Would the type of ideology/law effectively enhance or negate such a principle (if it is applicable)?

-2: Will minor/native race populations have an effect (big or small) on game play; similar to major race populations?

-3: Will migration be "a thing" within the game? Either another faction is more/less attractive to populate and thus populations slowly (or in mass) move to that faction.

-4: If your playing aggressively, you'll most likely have different populations from conquer. In other play styles, will attracting/fostering different populations through propaganda/incentives/trade/stealing/migration be "a thing."

-4(b): Will minor/major race population naturally distribute themselves across the galaxy with or without the player influence/control?

-4(c): Will closed/open boarder law/mechanics have an effect (if applicable)?

We'll come back on that on another gdd

-5: Will there be more then 1 candidate per ideology in each election?

Only 1 candidate per ideology to keep it simple.

-6: Will the Elected official (President/Prime Minister/Overlord/Hivemind/Guru?) be a figure head of the faction throughout their term? Such as their portrait/image being on the diplomacy, trade, and/or senate screen.

It will be displayed in the Senate screen, but it won't affect the diplomacy leader.

1: Will there be tech/faction affinity/gov type focused on diversity and thus lessen the burden of maintaining laws of differing types?

Yes! Government affects the flexibility the player has regarding law management.

2: Can laws be affected by other players factions or faction abilities in game? Such as Player 1 trying to increase the influence cost of Player 4's religious laws or not giving them the option to implement them.

We don't know yet how, but affecting other's government and law management is definitely something we find interesting!

Tainted wrote:


-2: Will minor/native race populations have an effect (big or small) on game play; similar to major race populations?

-3: Will migration be "a thing" within the game? Either another faction is more/less attractive to populate and thus populations slowly (or in mass) move to that faction.

-4: If your playing aggressively, you'll most likely have different populations from conquer. In other play styles, will attracting/fostering different populations through propaganda/incentives/trade/stealing/migration be "a thing."

-4(b): Will minor/major race population naturally distribute themselves across the galaxy with or without the player influence/control?

-4(c): Will closed/open boarder law/mechanics have an effect (if applicable)?

All of these will be answered in an upcoming GDD on Population.

Some questions/comments:

Type of Government and Senate Laws sound great.

I'm wondering how different races and species will effect the sentate/government as a whole (from the bottom up).

-1: Would sower population(s) contribute to more industry compared to sophon population(s)?

-1(b): Would the type of ideology/law effectively enhance or negate such a principle (if it is applicable)?

-2: Will minor/native race populations have an effect (big or small) on game play; similar to major race populations?

-3: Will migration be "a thing" within the game? Either another faction is more/less attractive to populate and thus populations slowly (or in mass) move to that faction.

-4: If your playing aggressively, you'll most likely have different populations from conquer. In other play styles, will attracting/fostering different populations through propaganda/incentives/trade/stealing/migration be "a thing."

-4(b): Will minor/major race population naturally distribute themselves across the galaxy with or without the player influence/control?

-4(c): Will closed/open boarder law/mechanics have an effect (if applicable)?



-5: Will there be more then 1 candidate per ideology in each election?

-5(b): If there is more then 1 candidate per ideology, will each have their own strength/weakness? (e.g. Ind. candidate #1 +trade %; Ind. candidate #2 +pop. growth)

-6: Will the Elected official (President/Prime Minister/Overlord/Hivemind/Guru?) be a figure head of the faction throughout their term? Such as their portrait/image being on the diplomacy, trade, and/or senate screen.



Laws: Some questions/comments:

I really enjoy you realize players will try to MinMax different types of laws from different ideologies and thus Canceling and Maintaining laws is needed.

1: Will there be tech/faction affinity/gov type focused on diversity and thus lessen the burden of maintaining laws of differing types?

2: Can laws be affected by other players factions or faction abilities in game? Such as Player 1 trying to increase the influence cost of Player 4's religious laws or not giving them the option to implement them.



Governments:

I sort of want the initial governments players will choose from not be ideal/beneficial in the long run or overall.

As a more Empire focused game (instead of battle), players need more incentive to switch government structures more then once or twice per game.

I feel the turbulence/change caused by governmental switches is linked to the overall challenge/enjoyment of the game. Civ 5's ideology structure was either heaven/hell that polarized the game that was already snowballing by the time its era came about.

Other than the Cravers, I can see every race integrate conquered peoples one way or the other. While it is true that Horatio would not integrate non-Horatios as citizens (so I don't see them able to vote), they could still be included as second class citizens.



But this begs the question, what happens to cravers when they are conquered? Can they be integrated? Or are we forced to exterminate them?