I've been playing Endless Spaces 2 for about 24 hours now, and I really like the game. But one thing I do not like is the Tech Tree. It is not very intuitive, and the explanations aren't to the point. An example would be the Applied Casimir Effect. Nowhere on the screen does it say that this is the tech you need to transit wormholes. I was trying to increase the size of my fleets. But that simply was not searchable. When I eventually found four techs that would let me do that, they had nothing in common, so no search term would have found them.

Are there lists of the various techs, modules, planet types, etc.? I have tried using the wiki, but since it is actually a Wikia, it spends all of its time loading new ads rather than performing my searches. And when I found what I wanted and printed, I ended up with ads and commentary in the middle of my prints.

There's two "things" to read with the techs. One is an in-lore explanation which generally doesn't have gameplay information embedded, and then the actual unlocked Technology below it, which does.



I personally adore the tech web in Endless Space more so than basically every other 4X game (Ranking just below Civilization: Beyond Earth) because of the freedom and lore. I hope they don't stray too far for the sequel...

It looks like the tech tree will be closer to Endless Legend, but I second the notion of keeping something close to Endless Space!

I don't have any problem with the tech web. My problem is that the descriptions given fall short of what is needed. Again, when you want to increase the size of your fleets, if you don't already know the tech you need, you may not find it. And that's only one example.

Very fair point. We'll keep that in mind to make sure it's not too obscure for new players.

WLFobe wrote:
I've been playing Endless Spaces 2 for about 24 hours now

Wait, WHAT?!? WHY AM I NOT PLAYING IT YET? Did I miss the early access or did he actually just mean Endless Space 1?

Frogsquadron wrote:
Very fair point. We'll keep that in mind to make sure it's not too obscure for new players.

Easily readible with depth is always good, but hard to balance. I thought ES1 did a good job with this (and EL for that matter), though maybe seeing what it could lead to and showing what those things do by hovering the mouse over would help for beginners?

More explicit tooltips or perhaps a better search index for tags as opposed to the current search that only allows searching titles is what I meant. Understand that this is only me discussing the idea and not a commitment by the team, I'm just expressing my own liking of the idea.



Also, I think WLFobe meant he was playing Endless Space, first of the name. Nobody outside the studio currently has access to the game.

WLFobe wrote:
I don't have any problem with the tech web. My problem is that the descriptions given fall short of what is needed. Again, when you want to increase the size of your fleets, if you don't already know the tech you need, you may not find it. And that's only one example.

Frogsquadron wrote:
Very fair point. We'll keep that in mind to make sure it's not too obscure for new players.

Fair enough. I don't remember my first few games of Endless Space, and of course now I'm used to it. No arguments against clarity.

Frogsquadron wrote:
More explicit tooltips or perhaps a better search index for tags as opposed to the current search that only allows searching titles is what I meant. Understand that this is only me discussing the idea and not a commitment by the team, I'm just expressing my own liking of the idea.



Also, I think WLFobe meant he was playing Endless Space, first of the name. Nobody outside the studio currently has access to the game.

What if they're actually a l33t haxxor and haxxed their way to the game?

Yes, Endless Space 1. I had just printed out the rules for Victoria II and seem to have merged something.

As I've said before about ES 2, I'm very worried about the tech-'tree'. I really didn't like the EL techs, it felt way too difficult to get to diplomacy, and I'm worried that it'll just be easier to go full Craver in ES 2. "I'm going to fight you to the death because it's easier than researching up to diplomacy."



I loved the Tech-Web of both ES1 and Disharmony. Really was hoping of something similar to it in ES 2.

Hiyouren wrote:
As I've said before about ES 2, I'm very worried about the tech-'tree'. I really didn't like the EL techs, it felt way too difficult to get to diplomacy, and I'm worried that it'll just be easier to go full Craver in ES 2. "I'm going to fight you to the death because it's easier than researching up to diplomacy."



I loved the Tech-Web of both ES1 and Disharmony. Really was hoping of something similar to it in ES 2.

I think there's a pretty significant margin of us who are. Given that the game isn't totally locked in, I'm hoping that has some influence on the end game. This is Amplitude's baby though, and they're of course free to do whatever they think is best, but I really hope it strays closer to Endless Space than Endless Legend in that regard.

I tend to agree that the tech tree was a little overwhelming the first time you saw it. Civilization always has the same problem, but unlike sci-fi or fantasy games, they have the benifit of the names for the techs being familiar.

And the search function honestly did not help. I tried to use it once, then never again.



I believe a filter system might be best, in which you can check different (sub)categories and it fades out all the technologies not matching them. For example, you could check "industry" and it would fade out all technologies except those that unlock system improvements that boost industry. Or you select "Approval" and "Empire Improvement" and you get all techs that grant approval bonuses to the whole empire.



To join in on the tech tree and era discussion, I believe a middle-ground would be best: A tech tree like in Endless Space, but researching technologies "ahead of time" (as in, before you have enough technologies from the previous era) is significantly more expensive. Then add in the different types of dependencies that they mentioned in the GDD (discounts, requirements, mutual exclusivity) for additional interaction between the techs.

I believe a filter system might be best, in which you can check different (sub)categories and it fades out all the technologies not matching them. For example, you could check "industry" and it would fade out all technologies except those that unlock system improvements that boost industry. Or you select "Approval" and "Empire Improvement" and you get all techs that grant approval bonuses to the whole empire.

Agreed, I really enjoy Amplitude for their creativity but with this attribute comes unfamiliarity making the ES 1 tech searching useless for the first 30 hours. So a check the box and see what fits approach would be a much better way to navigate.



The tech web did feel really static in ES 1 and I felt disharmony helped with giving more flavor for each of the factions but I would like to see ES 2 with more factions\political alignment unique techs. At the very least some interactions between players faction quest and the tech web to give a since that exploration is even happening in the science and not just on the map.