Maverik wrote:
This post is not on point, I think that Civ VI is not a good reference for amplitude, I even think Civ VI will take Endless Legend ideas and mechanics.



But I hope they keep an eye on Stellaris instead ; )

Endless Legends and Warlock 2 ideas is what Civ 6 appears to have "adapted".



I think that having Firaxis copy your idea is a high form of praise as long as the the fans don't act all crazy afterwards and try to act like EL stole from Civ 6. That was the case for the Hex system in Civ 5. Any game that also had a hex grid got accused of ripping off Civ 5. It was idiotic.

Frankly, I am already fed up with all of the hype for Civ VI. There's barely any information available yet, but what little information there is receives praise to no end. I am most annoyed by how almost everything Firaxis reveals about the game is hailed as some great and innovative change to the 4X genre.



"I love that social policies are now more like a second research tree." If they really are, so they were in CivV and Civ:BE.

"You can change policies to adapt to changing circumstances." It's not like most players asked specifically for that after Civ V came out, and there were several mods for that, because it was that way in previous games.

"The districts are such a great new idea!" Well, if "new" means "Has already been done by Endless Legend, Warlock 2, and probably a few other games," yes.

"Civilization leaders are going to pursue agendas." AI personalities with actual impact on gameplay? Shocking.



Mind you, I don't mean to nay-say the game, and they will surely bring some nice polish to a lot of these ideas. The game is probably going to be good. I just wish the games media would stop putting everything Firaxis says on a pedestal and just present the facts, and withhold the judgment until the game is actually close to release.



And yes, the little devs that first tried the ideas usually don't get credit. That is, unfortunately, how media and marketing work.

IMO, Amplitude is already the most innovative 4X creator on the market, and it is very obvious that Civ6 essentially copies its mechanics from Endless Legend. Even the name (districts) is the same. Its really a shame that the innovators are not getting the deserved credit in this regards. In this regard, I do not think that Amplitude can do something in response to Civ6 (as they are MORE innovative already), however, we as fans can certainly help them get the credit they deserve, by pointing out their status as innovators in various forums and other community-driven media.



P.S. Another game that I had high hopes on, Stellaris, turned out to be a total disappointment in this regard. Its essentially a min-maxing game with puzzle-based micromanagement and no visible innovation (at least nothing that I could see). In contrast, ES2 design docs are truly interesting.

Slashman wrote:
You mean like how Brad Wardell claims Ashes of the Singularity is the first RTS game with independently targeting and tracking turrets. Its not like Sword of the Stars 1 and 2 had them or anything... Oh wait!

Brad Wardell said that? I mean, he's even said Supreme Commander was a large inspiration, and even that had independant weapons targeting. I know he does make the odd vague claim, but that seems odd, even for him.



Doesn't change how hard I love that game though. Will be a great game during the winter time too, because after half an hour of playtime, my computer turns my room in to a sauna.

Slashman wrote:
You mean like how Brad Wardell claims Ashes of the Singularity is the first RTS game with independently targeting and tracking turrets. Its not like Sword of the Stars 1 and 2 had them or anything... Oh wait!

Is Stardock AAA?

Nasarog wrote:
Yup. Big AAA titles can suck the air out of a room. They also love to take mechanics from lesser known games and pass them off as original works.

You mean like how Brad Wardell claims Ashes of the Singularity is the first RTS game with independently targeting and tracking turrets. Its not like Sword of the Stars 1 and 2 had them or anything... Oh wait!

Yup. Big AAA titles can suck the air out of a room. They also love to take mechanics from lesser known games and pass them off as original works.

Nasarog wrote:
Endless Legends and Warlock 2 ideas is what Civ 6 appears to have "adapted".



I think that having Firaxis copy your idea is a high form of praise as long as the the fans don't act all crazy afterwards and try to act like EL stole from Civ 6. That was the case for the Hex system in Civ 5. Any game that also had a hex grid got accused of ripping off Civ 5. It was idiotic.

It's funny, I've been going through my Steam Library and forcing myself to complete games I haven't touched in a while, and only noticed last week that I owned Warlock 2. Not a perfect game by any stretch of the imagination, but damn fun.



Anyways, I know there's a big hubbub over what Civilization VI is going to do, but I have absolute faith in Endless Space 2 to do whatever Amplitude thinks is best. I'd rather they make their game than ape Firaxis.

Nasarog wrote:
Endless Legends and Warlock 2 ideas is what Civ 6 appears to have "adapted".



I think that having Firaxis copy your idea is a high form of praise as long as the the fans don't act all crazy afterwards and try to act like EL stole from Civ 6. That was the case for the Hex system in Civ 5. Any game that also had a hex grid got accused of ripping off Civ 5. It was idiotic.

Warlock 2 is such an underrated game tbh. And the amount of 'it's only Civ 5 with dragons' it got really didn't help make it shine as much as it should have had.



And Firaxis also copied elements from Pandora: First Contact for Beyond Earth, which led fans to attack the former game relentlessly. It is also underrated.



But well, the negative impact of having a big player dominating a market is a big can of worms.

Falkner wrote:
Did you not realize that the new stuff of Civ6 is mostly inspired by EL? Examples: city districts, diplomatic resource, flexible research, quests...

There will be quests and diplomatic resource in Civ6? Do you have a source please?

Civ VI was recently announced and big ideas surrounding how some of the systems will work was released.
Of particular interest at the moment is how they are changing up city building and research. The general concensus is that these changes would improve upon the typical 4x formula civ is known for.

Does amplitude plan to incorporate any of these ideas in some way into ES2?
(i.e. particular planet type required for many improvements/wonders, thereby focusing development to a more system-wide thing rather than planet-wide, adding in razing mechanics to this system making war a bit more strategic in nature when attacking a system...need to first discover a wormhole before wormhole travel can be researched if that's a thing, etc.)

Falkner wrote:
Did you not realize that the new stuff of Civ6 is mostly inspired by EL? Examples: city districts, diplomatic resource, flexible research, quests...



The idea of actions/circumstances giving a boost/malus to research is cool and might be worth implementing in EL/ES2.

I did, and I also noticed that civ is taking amplitude's ideas even further than they did. (In civ 6, nearly every improvement will be a district and they will all require certain terrains as pre-requisites, and they will be directly raze-able by invading armies)

With that in mind, I thought it may be worth asking if amplitude intends to follow up by implementing some of these systems that were based on and are now further evolutions of their own.



But ya, their new approach to science does seem interesting and could be a welcome addition to ES2. I may be showing my ignorance here, but adding in this discovery system that affects science shouldn't be too terribly hard to code in and, while (re)balancing would be a bugger, it would certainly be doable...



The whole thing about civ's new gameplan is that I think it could very-well succeed in what it sets out to do by making city planning and exploration more strategic and interesting. This directly combats the "tediousness" 4xs can be known for.

I've found some similarities between EL/ES and a latter game: CivBE. Didn't post it before, cause thought everyone who played Firaxis and Amplitude was aware of the. But just to clarify:



Tech web from ES close to tech web in CivBE (just added the leaf techs, but same concept)

Quests from EL close to that in CivBE

Influence points in EL close to this new diplomatic scores and favours in CivBE.



And now seems:



EL districts similar to Civ VI districts??

Idea posted in EL2 science GDD similar to CivVI boosts???

EL armies (which remembered me the Heroes system) seems inspire the new supports / armies in CivVI???



Who's taking inspiration??



I think that once you make an idea of the difference between two studios size, it seems that Amplitude is doing far better taking in account the resources at their disposal. At the point that I preodered all Civ games since internet exists (playing them since Civ I), and now I decided to prioritize ES2 over Civ VI (still I'm sure I'll finish buying both, but probably wait for an offer in Civ VI and preorder or buy early acces in ES2)

HappyHead wrote:
Civ VI was recently announced and big ideas surrounding how some of the systems will work was released.

Of particular interest at the moment is how they are changing up city building and research. The general concensus is that these changes would improve upon the typical 4x formula civ is known for.



Does amplitude plan to incorporate any of these ideas in some way into ES2?

Did you not realize that the new stuff of Civ6 is mostly inspired by EL? Examples: city districts, diplomatic resource, flexible research, quests...



The idea of actions/circumstances giving a boost/malus to research is cool and might be worth implementing in EL/ES2.

Maverik wrote:
I even think Civ VI take Legend Endless ideas and mechanics.

That's what I thought too when I saw the announcement of city-building with districts over several tiles. :D

This post is not on point, I think that Civ VI is not a good reference for amplitude, I even think Civ VI will take Endless Legend ideas and mechanics.



But I hope they keep an eye on Stellaris instead ; )

Heres an article from a 3rd party that explians things well enough in detail (info from some interviews is included)

http://www.polygon.com/features/2016/5/11/11653620/civilization-6-release-date-preview



And heres a link to the official site that gives a cursory explanation of the systems

http://franchise.civilization.com/en/games/civilization-vi/

Do you have a link for these threads, out of curiosity? My fellow crewmates might have seen them, but I haven't had the occasion to take a look myself. :)

I would go out on a limb here and say that kind of system would be difficult for a team the size of Amplitude, and they've probably also started cementing ideas at this point.



Still sounds awesome for Civilization though.