I think, that the Horatio is a must for  ES-2 major faction list.

It's the most original race in the Endless Universe. And one of the most original races in gaming history.

It's a race, that is driven not by pragmatism, money-lust, drive for power, religious zealotry, greater good. It's a race driven by love for beauty.

It's ships are highly unpractical and non utilitarian. Making kilometer long glass surrealistic statues, strapping in some engines and cannons, and launching them into space? Thats the Horatio.

It's science is even more un-pragmatic. Making extra glass bulkheads, so you can stuff your cargospace with more Horatios, and look at them all the time? Powder your face with nanomites thousands of years old, only to look good for the other-you-Horatios? Conquer planets, only to indulge yourself in constant feasts? Thats the Horatio.

It's society consists of a single person, distributed (via cloning) into billions of bodies with autonomous conscience. Individuality is treason, but, they somehow manage to combine conformity with originality. Horatios do have different social statuses, different cosmetics-looks, different scientific/combat/diplomatic skills. 

Horatio aren't even human any more. Their super-elongated sculls are definitely not Homo Sapiens sculls. And the incredible longevity(probably, even immortality) of the race, started by Horatio the First? There are only two ways, Horatio the First can be so- either extensive mutation or gene treatment(aka, artificial mutation). This is not a normal Homo Sapiens trait.  The Horatio race is Homo Decorus, a new species, elevated above the ugly Homo Sapiens.

Unfortunately for the Horatio I don't think they'll make it in as a major faction. ES2 seems to have a big focus on politics and the Horatio wouldn't have much of that as they're all just clones. We've already got a "hive-mind" race with the Cravers.

Ryski wrote:

Unfortunately for the Horatio I don't think they'll make it in as a major faction. ES2 seems to have a big focus on politics and the Horatio wouldn't have much of that as they're all just clones. We've already got a "hive-mind" race with the Cravers.

One "hive mind" race more, won't make a big difference.

I wouldn´t say the Horatios are  a "hive-mind" race - but let us not talk about that. It was revealed that we´ll have 8 factions at the start, 4 of which have already been revealed. Out of those half are complete newcomers.

Now let´s take a look at the remaining ES1 factions:

Harmony, Vaulters, Horatio, Hissho, Pilgrims, Amoeba, Automatons, Sowers, Sheredyn / United Empire

Out of those the factions with the most unique game elements are: Harmony, Vaulters, Sowers - I would be interested to see if elements from those 3 make their way into the game.

The others have some interesting elements sure - do not get me wrong - I think the Horatio´s cloning ability added for variety in the game and allowed to experiment with hero tactics.

Now since ES2 is a fusion between ES1 and EL - I would love to see if some Cultist faction makes it into the game ( One City System Style :-) )

Since the Lumeris are kinda like the Rovers in space ( God I love the Rovers, ...and I cannot wait to play the Lumeris )

Considering that the Vaulters have been in both games, they are in my humble opinion the strongest contender for one of the four remaining slots.

The Harmony gameplay elements have been seen in the Forgotten ( focus on one FIDS: Dust - This could be represented in the Vodyani for ES2, so a new race with a focus along that line might not come along )

That leaves us with the Sowers from my top 3 choices. Now given that it is possible to go heavy industry by going for the Industrialist faction - that might´ve replaced the gameplay element brought in by the Sowers. It´s anyone´s guess here.

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I assume that we will have a human race ... since humans will obviously colonize space in the feature, we need a representation. So some sort of United Empire faction will likely take up another of those for slots.

That leaves us with two slots to go, and we´ll have to wait and see. Maybe a magic-focussed race like the Ardent Mages, which uses forgotten and/or forbidden knowledge of Magic to secure their spot in the foodchain.

That´s my analysis about done.

The horatio arent a hivemind each horatio is independent actually horatios too different from the original are exiled/killed and different horatio heroes show different personalities the horatio are a dictadorship and a cult of personality and we know that dictadorships are a thing in ES2 already. 

Also i hope they come back as a major faction they are my fav faction in the whole endless franchise. 

I think the only thing holding back the Horatio in terms of new gameplay compatibility is hero cloning, other than that I don't see why they wouldn't work in ES2...

I agree that they're not unique enough for a major faction slot, at least upon release. They're zealous pursuit of beauty would almost make them religious, but we have a humanoid religious faction, they're human-like, but not quite human, so they can't get the human slot. They're not human, but based on a human empire, so they're not really a very good choice for the last ES1 race slot over the real nonhumans like Sowers, or Harmony, or even Amoeba. They're expansionist, but if we get UE we'll have a race that likes that, and Cravers already are big on that. They want everyone to be replaced by them, which is very similar to the Vodyani information we've seen so far. 

Honestly I can't see them making it as a major faction, and they were my favourite ES1 faction. Hero cloning, and their architectural aesthetic were both very neat features, and I liked making custom factions with them, because hero cloning could fit in many different playstyles. Nonetheless, I see two options: they become a minor faction, specifically splintered off humanity, that allows for cloning abilities (I see this one as a little less likely unless their imperialism is toned down, so that they're happy to see other beings, to feel superior to), or they become a DLC major faction, in something like a 'classic DLC', which includes a few of the older factions whose gameplay isn't really replicated, despite some flavour maybe overlapping (I'd bet on Amoeba being included in that as well).

I'm personally aiming to see Vaulters in ES2, because they're my favourite 'true human' faction, but I won't complain if it's UE, or even one of the 'new' races as a new view on humanity, because I'll hold out hope for DLC Vaulters. Then I think Sowers as ecologists would be neat with an expanded lore and mechanics, especially now that we have a tree-based faction coming, and while I like the Harmony's unique mechanics, I don't feel their heavily antagonistic lore is necessary in a game universe where we already have the Cravers, and to a degree the Vodyani (who I see only as pseudo-aggressive, both willing to leave others alone, and exploit their bodies and souls for essence, as the situation demands).

Biologically, I believe that we don't need any more humanoid races. One big gripe I have with Amplitudes games is that while all races are quite original, they're also usually humanoid. Thankfully the Unfallen might help in that regard (btw guys, remember to vote on the G2G! ) but we need more visually diverse leaders.

However I do admit that the Horatio were always an interesting race and probably my second-favourite human(?) race in Endless franchise (after Ardent Mages). Everything about them, from the design of the ships to their core gameplay felt nicely unique and they were a joy to play as/against. If they do make a comeback in ES2, I hope they'll be more of a tall empire though (since we always need more tall empires in Endless games).

That said, I think there's a different reason why we probably won't see Horatio in ES2 - because the devs want to explore their universe and showcase new, unexpected and interesting factions. Sophons and Cravers were pretty much a signature of ES2 so they came back, I also expect at least one non-Horatio human race to make a comeback (hopefully it will be UE and not the Vaulters). That means we have 3 "reprints" of old races and I think that Amplitude won't want to make any more to avoid criticism.

PANCZASU wrote:

Biologically, I believe that we don't need any more humanoid races. One big gripe I have with Amplitudes games is that while all races are quite original, they're also usually humanoid. Thankfully the Unfallen might help in that regard (btw guys, remember to vote on the G2G! ) but we need more visually diverse leaders.

But everyone does want a human faction.

Sinnaj63 wrote:

PANCZASU wrote:

Biologically, I believe that we don't need any more humanoid races. One big gripe I have with Amplitudes games is that while all races are quite original, they're also usually humanoid. Thankfully the Unfallen might help in that regard (btw guys, remember to vote on the G2G! ) but we need more visually diverse leaders.

But everyone does want a human faction.

I'm aware and we'll certainly get it. I'm not on a crusade against humans, I'm on a crusade against aliens that aren't humans in theory but in practice look like humans in masks

Sinnaj63 wrote:

PANCZASU wrote:

Biologically, I believe that we don't need any more humanoid races. One big gripe I have with Amplitudes games is that while all races are quite original, they're also usually humanoid. Thankfully the Unfallen might help in that regard (btw guys, remember to vote on the G2G! ) but we need more visually diverse leaders.

But everyone does want a human faction.

I dont i find them boring and they lack originality ( except for the vaulters they are cool) lot of people thinks that too saying that everyone wants humans back is kinda wrong. 

UnderDarkLord wrote:

I agree that they're not unique enough for a major faction slot, at least upon release. They're zealous pursuit of beauty would almost make them religious, but we have a humanoid religious faction, they're human-like, but not quite human, so they can't get the human slot. They're not human, but based on a human empire, so they're not really a very good choice for the last ES1 race slot over the real nonhumans like Sowers, or Harmony, or even Amoeba. They're expansionist, but if we get UE we'll have a race that likes that, and Cravers already are big on that. They want everyone to be replaced by them, which is very similar to the Vodyani information we've seen so far. 

Honestly I can't see them making it as a major faction, and they were my favourite ES1 faction. Hero cloning, and their architectural aesthetic were both very neat features, and I liked making custom factions with them, because hero cloning could fit in many different playstyles. Nonetheless, I see two options: they become a minor faction, specifically splintered off humanity, that allows for cloning abilities (I see this one as a little less likely unless their imperialism is toned down, so that they're happy to see other beings, to feel superior to), or they become a DLC major faction, in something like a 'classic DLC', which includes a few of the older factions whose gameplay isn't really replicated, despite some flavour maybe overlapping (I'd bet on Amoeba being included in that as well).

I'm personally aiming to see Vaulters in ES2, because they're my favourite 'true human' faction, but I won't complain if it's UE, or even one of the 'new' races as a new view on humanity, because I'll hold out hope for DLC Vaulters. Then I think Sowers as ecologists would be neat with an expanded lore and mechanics, especially now that we have a tree-based faction coming, and while I like the Harmony's unique mechanics, I don't feel their heavily antagonistic lore is necessary in a game universe where we already have the Cravers, and to a degree the Vodyani (who I see only as pseudo-aggressive, both willing to leave others alone, and exploit their bodies and souls for essence, as the situation demands).

They are far more unique than "generic human empire005" 

Seeing as we are exploring a new time line of endless space, we could be seeing a more diverse United Empire.

The corporate and imperial population of the normal empire, Horatios beautiful clone race, the xenophilic and nomadic Pilgrims and even the Militant mercenary Sheredyn.

The vaulters are kind of an anomaly. They are humans but with no tie to the United Empire or the home of humanity. Even still they are considered to be Nomads much like the Pilgrims although they often build stargates at the systems they occupy for a short period of time making them fantastic at defence.

A truely united empire where the player struggles to keep the various human factions in line, even to the point of having factions that directly oppose the wants and needs of the others.

I haven't yet read up extensively on ES2, but perhaps there is a chance that factions/entities such as the United Empire could change their names as a result of elections, gamestyle (aggressive, diplomatic etc.), number of species represented in the faction etc.? I think it would be nice if factions names could suddenly change as a result of these things i.e. an empire becoming a republic or a federation or a confederacy etc...

I think it is very likely that the Horatio will make their glorious return! From everything we've seen so far it seems like there is one faction aligned to each of the original ideologies. This leaves industialists, ecologists, and one of the scrapped ideologies that still need corresponding major races. It's also been confirmed that two of the three unrevealed races will be returning from ES1. Of the ES1 factions, the Horatio would be the perfect fit for the ecologists (If I recall correctly, the ecologist laws focus on increasing food and population so the Sowers wouldn't make much sense as they build their population with industry). Similarly, the United Empire are likely to appear as the Industrialists. 

The only great questions are the somewhat mysterious removed ideologies. I think it is likely that one of the two was a commerce ideology (which the Lumeris were originally aligned with) that was then merged into the pacifists. That would suggest that the final ideology was something to do with being anti-trade or perhaps mercantilism. The only ES1 faction that I think would fit that would be the Harmony (it would be awesome if they returned) but I suspect that this is where we'll see the last of the new races (perhaps those floating, multi-part robots we've seen in some pictures).

Of course, that's all speculation and I'm probably spectacularly wrong. Hopefully we'll see soon when the remaining major races get revealed!