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Unhappiness Food Penalty Too Strong

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8 years ago
Oct 9, 2016, 12:12:28 AM

I agree the penalty is too harsh, I hope it gets fixed during balancing. On my home planet, my pop would get to 7 then reach a high level of unhappiness, food penalty kicks in and I loose a population and the unhappiness goes away. This whole cycle took 4 turns. I just let the system sit, i watched the population go from 7-6-7-6...


The dust was a different matter. On second I was making 125 and the next turn I am at -50 because two of my outposts became colonies at the same time. Again, I hope stuff like this gets fixed during balancing.


On the whole, I love the game and can't get enough ES2

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8 years ago
Oct 9, 2016, 8:06:44 PM

I agree with most that is said about the Cravers in this discussion, great faction but a bit of a bumpy ride after turn ~60.

Dust, happiness and science are swinging so hard, that I don't even now why I had -400 dust last turn and +600 dust the next.

I managed to win the game by just scrapping buildings and letting my fleets kill everything they could get their hands on.

But it felt so instable, I didn't feel like I was in control of my empire at all.


What worries me tough; if this instability already occurs this early in the game, I think late game will be extremely unstable.

Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Oct 9, 2016, 11:31:26 AM
MajinSoul wrote:

Same experience here. The start with the Cravers is awesome. However, at some point (I think it was around turn 80) everything collapsed. You need to be at war to gain happiness and capture new systems. However, that will add penalties to overcolonilization. You also get an insane amount of happiness penalty for election results. That basically ended with most of my systems being in Rebellion and losing population, even Cravers population. This way I didn't even get to deplete Planets because there were no Cravers population to deplete a Planet, which means by playing how Cravers are supposed to be played I didn't even get to make use of their special trait. Forced truce doesn't help either. The happiness loss for not being at war will further destroy your economy. Their entire gameplay is a vicious circle right now.


I don't know how balanced my solutions are, but I will give them anyway: When conquering a system, allow to chose wether you want to implement it to your empire or abondon it. That is one thing I love about the Vodyani. It means that you don't have to deal with a bad system suddenly affecting your empire approval. Allow us to "raze" a system after a set number of turns, similar to Endless Legend. That way we could get rid of depleted systems. Cravers are dictators that feed on other factions, it would be nice if election results would have a lower effect on foreign population. After all, Cravers don't really care about the well-being of other factions. 


Don't get me wrong, I love the Cravers design but their gameplay is not in a good spot right now. In my opinion anyway.


Cravers are great fun, the quests are interesting and have me craving more.


Overpopulation is easy enough to deal with and encourages building happiness buildings for all factions. Overcolonisation however, is a different matter entirely; it destroys your empire from the inside-out, happiness everywhere plummets, elections suddenly start devouring your happiness with -30 and above penalties quickly followed by your population, absolutely everywhere migrating.


Obviously, this encourages us to not invest time in producing improvements which give increases of X for happy and ecstatic pops. So it's obviously a consequence of early alpha.


MajinSoul, I do like your suggestion of effective playing leapfrog with non-essential planets, another option yet due to how anomalies, bonuses and so on work, we may only abandon a populated planet once or twice per game. Which is fine, or something.


As of now though, the only way to bypass the out of rhythm happiness mechanic is to go Religious and enforce the law where all pops are permanently content. It's a jury-rig fix however it allows you to stop being distracted by happiness and allows you to test other things.

Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Oct 9, 2016, 11:20:38 AM

Same experience here. The start with the Cravers is awesome. However, at some point (I think it was around turn 80) everything collapsed. You need to be at war to gain happiness and capture new systems. However, that will add penalties to overcolonisation. You also get an insane amount of happiness penalty for election results. That basically ended with most of my systems being in Rebellion and losing population, even Cravers population. This way I didn't even get to deplete Planets because there were no Cravers population to deplete a Planet, which means by playing how Cravers are supposed to be played I didn't even get to make use of their special trait. Forced truce doesn't help either. The happiness loss for not being at war will further destroy your economy. Their entire gameplay is a vicious circle right now.


I don't know how balanced my solutions are, but I will give them anyway: When conquering a system, allow to chose wether you want to integrate it to your empire or abondon it. That is one thing I love about the Vodyani. It means that you don't have to deal with a bad system suddenly affecting your empire approval. Allow us to "raze" a system after a set number of turns, similar to Endless Legend. That way we could get rid of depleted systems. Cravers are dictators that feed on other factions, it would be nice if election results would have a lower effect on foreign population. After all, Cravers don't really care about the well-being of other factions. 


Don't get me wrong, I love the Cravers design but their gameplay is not in a good spot right now. In my opinion anyway.

Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Oct 9, 2016, 10:33:21 AM

Yup, in my cravers game, my original slave populace (haroshems? can't remember) just starved itself to death after the first election due to unhappiness. It did solve the issue in the next election though.

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8 years ago
Oct 9, 2016, 10:07:12 AM

I just had a start with the Cravers collapse around turn 40 because of massive unhappiness after the second elections, caused by the slave population being unhappy that their religious party didn't get representation. I really don't see how it makes sense for the Cravers to have the enslaved pops care one way or the other about the elections. They don't vote and they're just meat to the Cravers, so why should they have any effect on the empire happiness level.

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8 years ago
Oct 9, 2016, 9:59:30 AM

The problem with Cravers is that not only do they get Over-colonization penalties for expanding, they also get additional happiness penalties for their slaves/food disagreeing with their Dictatorship. It makes the basic Craver gameplay paradigm of continuously consuming new planets and populations unsustainable. Past a certain point, the penalties are so huge that no boost in the game is big enough to counteract them and your entire empire is stuck constantly starving. Frankly, I wish they could choose to abandon depleted planets because their existence hurts more than it helps.


For other factions, like Sophons, you just need to be really careful about overexpanding, and make sure you actually research happiness boosters. The penalty isn't necessarily too big, but maybe there's not enough warning that you're about to push it over the limit.

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8 years ago
Oct 9, 2016, 3:15:31 AM
BlackBird1696 wrote:

My problem is that as the Cravers no matter what political party you support your population's happiness plummets even if they are overwhelmingly in support of the winning party.

That's because they are a dictatorship. People don't get a vote so unless the people are supporting the Party YOU choose wins, you get a penalty related to the amount of people that didn't support your party. It is calculated as an average and just blanket applied to your empire. This is to countermand a Dictatorships ability to CHOOSE what party he wants in power, and in effect what Laws they can in-act. This in itself is not a problem. What is a problem... is the difficulty of manipulating the parties that gain support. As far as I can tell. The options to affect the political outcome just doesn't work, or work as strong as it needs to be.


Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Oct 9, 2016, 1:59:18 AM

My problem is that as the Cravers no matter what political party you support your population's happiness plummets even if they are overwhelmingly in support of the winning party.

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8 years ago
Oct 8, 2016, 1:11:13 AM

I'm finding in my home system (as Sophons on a Small map), that the unhappiness penalty for food is so great that even with intensive cultivation I have negative food supply, and have gone down to just 1 population.


I think the penalty is too severe overall.

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8 years ago
Oct 8, 2016, 11:49:54 PM
MikeLemmer wrote:

I had a similar problem, but with Dust: I built one colony too many and suddenly my income plummeted from +50 to -200.

Yeah, this is ridiculous LOL

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8 years ago
Oct 8, 2016, 11:37:44 PM

Definitely too harsh - in the early years of my Sophon game, my homeworld was getting stuck in a cycle of growing one pop, taking a huge happiness hit from overpopulation which tanked that system's FIDS.  The system would then starve down one pop, and then next turn grow another pop, etc. etc.  While I think that happiness should definitely be a factor, if it is to be this strong there needs to be a toggle for population growth.  My economy/science tanking every other turn got frustrating after a while.  


I'd say either keep it as it is but add warnings and population growth toggles, or simply make the penalty less harsh/scale it better.

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8 years ago
Oct 8, 2016, 6:52:19 PM

Yup, Just finished a craver game where I was starving all my planets to death because all my people hated millitarism. It should really just halt food production, or be less severe.

Also, several times I have had planets growing and then starving in an endless cycle because of overpopulation pushing happiness back and forward

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8 years ago
Oct 8, 2016, 5:30:38 AM

I agree. I found that by mid game my empire started collapsing because of unhappiness and it felt like there wasn't much I could do to stop it.

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8 years ago
Oct 8, 2016, 2:12:53 AM

I got a new planet to finally colonize, and then instantly lose the pop I had just gotten. Not even sure what was happening at that point, since I technically had a world with 0 population.

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8 years ago
Oct 8, 2016, 1:41:49 AM

I had a similar problem, but with Dust: I built one colony too many and suddenly my income plummeted from +50 to -200.

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8 years ago
Oct 8, 2016, 1:38:27 AM

The happiness jumps are overall very severe (both positive and negative). I think you jump down from normal to -50% or -75% food and industry on the first happiness loss

Updated 8 years ago.
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