FlamingTacos wrote:

The Hissho: Why were they made a minor faction? I don't know if I just haven't seen something where they explained it, but it doesn't make any sense to me. They weren't my favorite faction, but removing a faction like that just seems like a move that's only going to alienate fans and make it less like the original game in a bad way.

Empire View: While I didn't like having less options with taxes in Endless Legend, I didn't have a huge problem with it because it was a fantasy game with focuses on different things. But this isn't Endless Legend 2, it's Endless Space 2, so I'd like the spreadsheet empire page back in some form with variable tax rates as well. 

Technology: Endless Space had a complex, interesting technology tree with options. In this, it's pretty much a copy of endless legend that isn't as interesting as before and lacks the options I liked in Endless Space. Along with that, the cost of each science isn't displayed as clearly, even if it's a minor complaint it's something I'd like to see come back.

System View and Buildings: The UI here isn't as clear as it was before to me, before I could easily see what was produced and how the buildings effected it. In this, it isn't visible straightaway and overall just doesn't seem as good to me. Also, where did planetary specializations go. Did I just miss them or are they being added in soon?

Unskippable Scenes: The scenes whenever you view a new system seem redundant and annoying after the second time you see them, the same for viewing combat. In the original game there was a point in viewing combat because you could change it real time, but in this there doesn't seem a point. I know combat's going to be expanded later, but unless there's a way to change things mid combat there should probably be a way to skip it. If I just missed a way to skip either of these then please let me know.

Quests: I liked the idea of it for Endless Legend, but for Endless Space I don't as much. I don't think they should be as big in this as they were in legend, after all this is sci fi fantasy and not plain fantasy. I don't think they should be as big in this as they were in Endless Legend and maybe rename them to something else more fitting with the sci fi aspect of it. Quest to me just seems like something you'd see a Dwarf, Elf, and Half Orc in a tavern doing rather than a spacefaring empire doing.

Overall my main issue with the game so far is that it doesn't feel like endless space to me, it feels more like endless legend in space. The games should have some similarities, like the improved aesthetic style in Endless Legend and the improved UI. But the games should still be different, this just feels too similar to me than it should, I didn't want to get Endless Legend 2, I wanted Endless Space 2.

There's other problems besides the ones I've mentioned of course, but these are just the things I've disliked after playing it for a bit. I don't like the change away from Endless Space card combat much, but given that the system here is very early in development I'll wait before I get too critical of it. Also I'd like to say that I'm just pointing these out to get other peoples opinions on them and to improve the game overall. I really like every other endless game so far and I want to like this one too.

Okay so. The Hissho are a minor faction for the same reason we won't see every faction return, because there's no way to include quite a few new factions, all the old factions, and keep development time and content reasonable. You can only pick two. Additionally, Endless Space 1 factions were relatively synchronous compared to the major differences between factions in Endless Legend, and the devs are going for aiming for more asynchronous styles in ES2, so factions like the Hissho whose differences from others were largely numbers based, rather than base gamestyle, are good candidates to keep as minor factions so they can still be in the game and lore, but not as a major faction.

Empire view: I'd also like more choices, not sure taxes necessarily however, for now I'm finding that the luxury resources are rather 'dumbed-down' compared to EL, if only because right now their only use starts in era 2. I think they're still tweaking dust management and approval management, as evidenced by the way the EA version has easier approval management than some of the VIP builds from just before it (from what I've heard), so maybe we'll see taxes or other elements come in the future once those systems are more concrete. 

What specific options you liked are missing? Personally I'm having a blast with the tech eras right now primarily because the increase in planet types have led them to link planet colonization tech to other techs, which I like as a combination bonus award + reason to get planet colonization types you don't yet need. At the same time, I do feel the eras are a bit small in technology, since you have quite a bit of it researched by the time you unlock the next era, which makes choices feel less significant.

UI seems fine to me, except I can't find the button to sell buildings (as Vodyani in case that matters). I've seen a mention of specializations but can't recall how it shifted over the games since I wasn't particularly looking for it, so it's either in, or in progress.

You can skip combat, you just have to untab or unclick, however you want to see it, the glowing blue button that is small, but present on a couple of the combat screens (the initiating combat screen, the battle plan screen) that says 'watch'. It turns grey when it's turned off. Don't know if planet scene view is skippable.

If you're automatically associating quests with fantasy, that's your own hangup. A quest is literally just a process of goals, most games have them in some way, even when they're not itemized on a list. The main association of quest is that it has a bit more story or other text than a simple objective in, say, a shooter. Mass Effect has quests, KOTOR has quests, many science fiction games, primarily RPGs, do fine with quests. I personally really like the new quest system, especially with the way it gives you choices, although some of the quests feel incomplete or short at the moment.

There are a lot of things that feel more like ES to me than EL, some of which are new, some old: exploration ships, different combat styles, admiral ships with their broader weapons options than regular ships, the way population now works, the new political system, and others.

Planetary specializations exist, you just have to research them instead of having one of each type available from the start. Which I suppose ties into your complaint about the tech tree. Personally I feel that too many basic mechanics are locked behind the tech tree, especially tier 2.

UnderDarkLord wrote:

(as Vodyani in case that matters)

It does matter for planet specialization, since they don't seem to have any (which makes sense considering they don't colonize planets in the strictest sense). Every other system improvement is tied to the ark and you can redeploy it wherever you want, but planet specialization wouldn't feel the same for them.

I agree with the Technology tree.

I hoped for a return of the Technology tree system from Endless Space one. The decision making just does not feel as meaningul as it did back in Ensless Space One which is a shame ; (

Don't agree with a single point apart from the tech tree feeling a little bland.Never really liked the open era tree in EL either.I dislike static trees too but some sort of SOTS randomised tree would be the best.

Ashbery76 wrote:

Don't agree with a single point apart from the tech tree feeling a little bland.Never really liked the open era tree in EL either.I dislike static trees too but some sort of SOTS randomised tree would be the best.

SOTS's tech tree idea was excellent, even Stellaris made a significant effort with the concept of drawing semi-random options from a research deck based on potential unlocks. I really don't see the benefit in the Endless Legend style era research system unless you're going to flatten it to three eras and make it an awful lot "wider" to allow for more diverse playstyles, but even then that creates problems. The reason why ES1's research worked was because of the interlinked dependencies, the Era system only requires you research "Technology" to get from Era 1 to Era 2, it doesn't care WHICH technology, which makes next to no sense. I can skip Tier 2 titanium and go straight to Tier 3, lolwut?

That definitely needs looking at. It worked for Endless Legend, but not every solution is a hammer, even if everything begins to look like a nail from a distance.

UnderDarkLord wrote:

Okay so. The Hissho are a minor faction for the same reason we won't see every faction return, because there's no way to include quite a few new factions, all the old factions, and keep development time and content reasonable. You can only pick two. Additionally, Endless Space 1 factions were relatively synchronous compared to the major differences between factions in Endless Legend, and the devs are going for aiming for more asynchronous styles in ES2, so factions like the Hissho whose differences from others were largely numbers based, rather than base gamestyle, are good candidates to keep as minor factions so they can still be in the game and lore, but not as a major faction.

Empire view: I'd also like more choices, not sure taxes necessarily however, for now I'm finding that the luxury resources are rather 'dumbed-down' compared to EL, if only because right now their only use starts in era 2. I think they're still tweaking dust management and approval management, as evidenced by the way the EA version has easier approval management than some of the VIP builds from just before it (from what I've heard), so maybe we'll see taxes or other elements come in the future once those systems are more concrete. 

What specific options you liked are missing? Personally I'm having a blast with the tech eras right now primarily because the increase in planet types have led them to link planet colonization tech to other techs, which I like as a combination bonus award + reason to get planet colonization types you don't yet need. At the same time, I do feel the eras are a bit small in technology, since you have quite a bit of it researched by the time you unlock the next era, which makes choices feel less significant.

UI seems fine to me, except I can't find the button to sell buildings (as Vodyani in case that matters). I've seen a mention of specializations but can't recall how it shifted over the games since I wasn't particularly looking for it, so it's either in, or in progress.

You can skip combat, you just have to untab or unclick, however you want to see it, the glowing blue button that is small, but present on a couple of the combat screens (the initiating combat screen, the battle plan screen) that says 'watch'. It turns grey when it's turned off. Don't know if planet scene view is skippable.

If you're automatically associating quests with fantasy, that's your own hangup. A quest is literally just a process of goals, most games have them in some way, even when they're not itemized on a list. The main association of quest is that it has a bit more story or other text than a simple objective in, say, a shooter. Mass Effect has quests, KOTOR has quests, many science fiction games, primarily RPGs, do fine with quests. I personally really like the new quest system, especially with the way it gives you choices, although some of the quests feel incomplete or short at the moment.

There are a lot of things that feel more like ES to me than EL, some of which are new, some old: exploration ships, different combat styles, admiral ships with their broader weapons options than regular ships, the way population now works, the new political system, and others.

I think that there would be better candidates for change into a minor faction than the Hissho though, even if there was only minor differences between them before they could always change them to have larger differences. Even so, it's not a huge problem for me and probably isn't something that's likely to change so there isn't too much point in complaining about it.

The reason I want more tax options is so if I'm at war then I can squeeze dust out of the empire to rush that extra ship at the cost of unhappiness and less food or whatever the effect will be. Luxuries also seem to be an issue now that you mention it, but I think that's more a problem with the tech tree.

The reason I have a problem with the tech tree is because I can't rush for a certain tech immediately anymore and there won't be huge differences in tech levels in specific areas anymore(besides Sophons, which seem a bit OP with oracle of science at the start now). Also the change from the tree to a tier system bothers me because besides being more visually appealing to me, the tree system offered more freedom once you got past the first few research points, while in the tier system you're locked into researching a certain amount before you can move on. It does make the science victory take longer, but I still think that I'd prefer the tree system because you can only rush for that and neglect most other things. 

I didn't know they locked specializations behind tier 2, but I definitely agree with Clarste on them locked functions behind tier 2. It just seems like something like that either shouldn't need to be researched or should be on tier 1.

Thanks for pointing out the way to skip battles, kind of feel stupid now that I missed that.

As for quests you are right on that it's more a personal thing for me, the same goes for the overall feeling. But I was mainly posting this to see if I was the only one who had some of the same problems, along with maybe changing something if one of the devs finds the thread.

I agree with you on every point except the quests (Because I'm never going to argue with more gameplay options). I don't understand why they seem to ignore Endless Space's gameplay and basically cut+paste Endless Legend's. A lot of it doesn't fit, and most of it feels like a step backwards... I'm hoping we're not too far committed to those things already.

Which is weird, but most of the changes from endless space one I actually really love. I also really hated the disharmony expansion for the original as well, it added more features I disliked then I liked.