ENDLESS™ Space 2 is turn-based 4X space-strategy that launches players into the space colonization age of different civilizations within the ENDLESS™ Universe. Your Vision. Their Future.
There's a lot of things that intrigue me about the system as a whole, it seems like events that are "anti" have a negative modifier that's mathematically wrong, it should be -0.2 if they're working by five factions affected, so it looks like the system is "Non zero sum", however that means there's other factors in play. That means over time the system will build up memory, and it will become progressively harder to make shifts in the political makeup of the race you're playing (larger numbers in absolute terms and relative to each other mean you'll be having to deal with larger spans to get one faction close to another). More to the point, it doesn't feel like any of the positive modifiers really -help- any factions short of ludicrous major events, gains of 1-1.5 mean that it's going to wear the system in pretty quick (100-200 turns) and cause a lot of difficulty to shift the system around past turn 400.
Local politics would be an awesome idea, by the way. The rest of it seems a bit placeholder, but has promise if they tweak numbers and the like.
I don't think that population and Political parties work as intended. Yet.
For example as you can see from this screenshot, anti-materialists support the scientific party for some reason.
Materialist and Anti-Materialist are "Pro-Science" and "Anti-Science" respectively they have just been given a misleading/wrong name.But they work as intended. If you look at Sophons you see they have the Materialist trait ^^
Every other effect adds to it's respective ideology from the looks of it , that's why I don't understand why it contributes to Scientists. Unless it's supposed to be a penalty, in which case it should be clear.
But I'm still not convinced that's the case, especially since we have other examples of this screen (but another playthrough) not portraying things properly, for example Haroshem not adding up to the Pacifists .
Every other effect adds to it's respective ideology from the looks of it , that's why I don't understand why it contributes to Scientists. Unless it's supposed to be a penalty, in which case it should be clear.
But I'm still not convinced that's the case, especially since we have other examples of this screen (but another playthrough) not portraying things properly, for example Haroshem not adding up to the Pacifists .
You can see it has a negative contribution/penalty in the xml files but agree that it should be shown visually. Other things might be wrong yes.
Edit: Have posted this in the other thread from dev Frogsquadron. Believe the missing link/line happens when there are exactly 7 events and 3 political parties and the 4th event is aligned exactly over the political party it is affecting. So it is probably a graphical issue where lines are not drawn even though the event contributes to the political party behind the scenes so to speak.
I think one of the current issues is not how buildings affect support, but rather how other actions do.
From what I recall building a ship or an improvement both have the same amount of support given to a faction.
The issue comes from fleets winning combat, and gaining influence for EACH ship they killed. So you wipe a craver fleet and it's 6 times as much support than a simple building.
This makes some senese because if you're fighting a lot there should be support, but because the AI will always have small fleets to kill you're always going to be gaining a ton of influence there.
I think ideally ships you kill should give very little boost to your ideology unless you're at war, at which point it should be much more.
Killing enemy ships in neutral/enemy territory should have minimal political impact, but destroying ships in or adjacent to one of your systems should have a much heavier impact.
I think one of the current issues is not how buildings affect support, but rather how other actions do.
From what I recall building a ship or an improvement both have the same amount of support given to a faction.
The issue comes from fleets winning combat, and gaining influence for EACH ship they killed. So you wipe a craver fleet and it's 6 times as much support than a simple building.
This makes some senese because if you're fighting a lot there should be support, but because the AI will always have small fleets to kill you're always going to be gaining a ton of influence there.
I think ideally ships you kill should give very little boost to your ideology unless you're at war, at which point it should be much more.
Killing enemy ships in neutral/enemy territory should have minimal political impact, but destroying ships in or adjacent to one of your systems should have a much heavier impact.
Yeah that's probably a better way to do it, especially as diplomacy becomes a thing. Still if the craver AI goes stupid it'll be annoying wiping a horribly unthreatening fleet every few turns and still having heavy militarist support.
I think one of the current issues is not how buildings affect support, but rather how other actions do.
From what I recall building a ship or an improvement both have the same amount of support given to a faction.
The issue comes from fleets winning combat, and gaining influence for EACH ship they killed. So you wipe a craver fleet and it's 6 times as much support than a simple building.
This makes some senese because if you're fighting a lot there should be support, but because the AI will always have small fleets to kill you're always going to be gaining a ton of influence there.
I think ideally ships you kill should give very little boost to your ideology unless you're at war, at which point it should be much more.
Killing enemy ships in neutral/enemy territory should have minimal political impact, but destroying ships in or adjacent to one of your systems should have a much heavier impact.
Yeah that's probably a better way to do it, especially as diplomacy becomes a thing. Still if the craver AI goes stupid it'll be annoying wiping a horribly unthreatening fleet every few turns and still having heavy militarist support.
I think having border planets be paranoid warmongers is an intended design feature. It certainly feels immersive.
Also another suggestion -- destroying enemy ships should generate support for Militarists (again, depending on whether or not they are in your territory) but losing your ships should generate support for Pacifists. From an immersion standpoint, it represents opposition to sending soldiers out to die, and from a gameplay perspective, it puts more pressure on the player to win battles (especially if they're pursuing a long-term war).
Here are the different traits and events that go towards the different political ideologies. After each trait I have written the associated multiplier. These are taken from the PopulationPoliticalTraits.xml game version [0.1.3]. I have added ingame labels in the cases where I could find them in the localization xml files. Not sure how excactly they events factor in. That they have called them multipliers in the xml would suggest that each event might have individual political points defined elsewhere which then is multiplied by the trait multiplier.
Very interesting. Now I can say without any doubt that the political system view is definitely incomplete, as I can find many triggers not currently shown. Not even the most prominent ones.
Very interesting. Now I can say without any doubt that the political system view is definitely incomplete, as I can find many triggers not currently shown. Not even the most prominent ones.
I believe that all the triggers that are mentioned in the xml are at times shown either as the events them selves or under the umbrella of the trait name as is the case for all anti-traits. Could be wrong though. Is somewhat hard to determine as a maximum of 7 are shown at a time and I don't know how these seven are determined exactly.
I don't think that population and Political parties work as intended. Yet.
For example as you can see from this screenshot, anti-materialists support the scientific party for some reason.
Materialist and Anti-Materialist are "Pro-Science" and "Anti-Science" respectively they have just been given a misleading/wrong name.But they work as intended. If you look at Sophons you see they have the Materialist trait ^^
There's a lot of things that intrigue me about the system as a whole, it seems like events that are "anti" have a negative modifier that's mathematically wrong, it should be -0.2 if they're working by five factions affected, so it looks like the system is "Non zero sum", however that means there's other factors in play. That means over time the system will build up memory, and it will become progressively harder to make shifts in the political makeup of the race you're playing (larger numbers in absolute terms and relative to each other mean you'll be having to deal with larger spans to get one faction close to another). More to the point, it doesn't feel like any of the positive modifiers really -help- any factions short of ludicrous major events, gains of 1-1.5 mean that it's going to wear the system in pretty quick (100-200 turns) and cause a lot of difficulty to shift the system around past turn 400.
Local politics would be an awesome idea, by the way. The rest of it seems a bit placeholder, but has promise if they tweak numbers and the like.
Five factions affected? What do you mean?
In regards to the memory. Sure if you assume they never forget. But if not already in place they could add a memory limit meaning they only remember the last x turns or something like that.
The Vodyani don't seem to have this issue, to that point where at turn 44 I still have 100% Religious... which to be honest is probably a bug of some sort.
I think I read somewhere (was it the game manual?) that the Vodyani do not tolerate other races in their population as a faction trait. But what I don't understand is how do the militarists get a part in the government despite this trait? It doesn't make sense.
The Vodyani can and will divert from the Religious path as I've seen in my playthroughs. The fact that religious triggers have double the effect on them is no guarantee that they won't turn Militarists or Industrialists or whatever at some point.
It may happen later in game in comparison with the more "democratic" races, but it will happen.
See the picture of the population census that I posted above, where the Militarists have the upper hand and there are even a few Scientists (supposedly difficult for the Vodyani). At that time the Militarists had won 2 elections in a row.
I managed to bring the Religious back in power only by intimidating their rival parties. Financial campaign wasn't even close to being enough.
What I meant was I don't understand how a xenophobic faction with planets that do not contain pops of other affinities empirewide could end up with a senate containing representations from other affinities?
You can see that there is a Political Score that is tracked in each system for each of the ideologies. Each round every pop on a planet adds to this score through their political believe fx the +10 to Scientist for Sophons (in rare circumstances these can be altered through the game).
Additionally events happen that are worth a certain amount of political score towards the different ideologies, these are added directly to the score. The events will also have an additional effect, that is a score modified by the Psychotraits the individual pop might have. (See the Psychotraits and their multiplier in my other post)
The event scores are temporary and disappear after a certain amount of time or when they are resolved.
At the beginning not every ideology is unlocked for a given faction, but as you gather empire wide political score towards these ideologies additional ideologies are unlocked. It gets progressively harder to unlock new ideologies as the number of unlocked ideologies increases.
The Vodyani don't seem to have this issue, to that point where at turn 44 I still have 100% Religious... which to be honest is probably a bug of some sort.
I think I read somewhere (was it the game manual?) that the Vodyani do not tolerate other races in their population as a faction trait. But what I don't understand is how do the militarists get a part in the government despite this trait? It doesn't make sense.
The Vodyani can and will divert from the Religious path as I've seen in my playthroughs. The fact that religious triggers have double the effect on them is no guarantee that they won't turn Militarists or Industrialists or whatever at some point.
It may happen later in game in comparison with the more "democratic" races, but it will happen.
See the picture of the population census that I posted above, where the Militarists have the upper hand and there are even a few Scientists (supposedly difficult for the Vodyani). At that time the Militarists had won 2 elections in a row.
I managed to bring the Religious back in power only by intimidating their rival parties. Financial campaign wasn't even close to being enough.
What I meant was I don't understand how a xenophobic faction with planets that do not contain pops of other affinities empirewide could end up with a senate containing representations from other affinities?
It's not that difficult to imagine. Ideologies are not racially exclusive and they change over time, even in religious focused societies.
The only reason it's happening so fast and chaotic is because the political system isn't fully implemented and a bit buggy.
The Vodyani don't seem to have this issue, to that point where at turn 44 I still have 100% Religious... which to be honest is probably a bug of some sort.
I think I read somewhere (was it the game manual?) that the Vodyani do not tolerate other races in their population as a faction trait. But what I don't understand is how do the militarists get a part in the government despite this trait? It doesn't make sense.
The Vodyani can and will divert from the Religious path as I've seen in my playthroughs. The fact that religious triggers have double the effect on them is no guarantee that they won't turn Militarists or Industrialists or whatever at some point.
It may happen later in game in comparison with the more "democratic" races, but it will happen.
See the picture of the population census that I posted above, where the Militarists have the upper hand and there are even a few Scientists (supposedly difficult for the Vodyani). At that time the Militarists had won 2 elections in a row.
I managed to bring the Religious back in power only by intimidating their rival parties. Financial campaign wasn't even close to being enough.
What I meant was I don't understand how a xenophobic faction with planets that do not contain pops of other affinities empirewide could end up with a senate containing representations from other affinities?
Because factions are not cemented in certain ideologies, they can change. The Sophons for example, start with Scientists but various triggers can affect them and point them towards other ideologies as well.
In this chart you can see how easy it is for your pop to be affected by other ideologies.
Sophons Science party seem to lose their 2-1 advantage against the Minor Faction pacifists immediately.
i have this exact problem playing as Sophons every time. Within two dozen turns the Haroshem almost outnumber the Sophon and no matter what the political prediction says the pacifists always win unless I intimidate candidates, which really really sucks.
One simple way to fix it ( at least partially ) is to start only with your faction population. That way your first and even second and third system will have only your faction pop, wich will help keep the main political partie.
Well there are some definite discrepancies between the distribution shown in the system scan views of ones systems just before the election and the distribution of representatives that are elected. So there are probably some erroneous calculations going on.
It could be a bit less powerful than it currently is (and I think once the migration mechanics are properly implemented each different faction and race should have their own 'transmission' rates) but I think it's gameplay and lore-appropriate that the Lumeris and the Sophons end up with much rowdier and more varied political scenes than the Vodyani or Cravers.
The Vodyani don't seem to have this issue, to that point where at turn 44 I still have 100% Religious... which to be honest is probably a bug of some sort.
As Lumeris, I'm having the opposite problem: by Turn 50, the Pacifists lose to the Militarists. Even if I don't have any Militant populations and my only fights are against 1 Craver fleet snooping around my territory.
Personally, I think building military ships contributes too much to it. The mere act of building a proper defensive force propels the Militarists into power.
The Vodyani don't seem to have this issue, to that point where at turn 44 I still have 100% Religious... which to be honest is probably a bug of some sort.
Nah, that sounds about right. They start with a religious hero, have only their own population (Which is religious) and have predominantly religious upgrades when advancing (Arks and population boost both add to religious). I eventually got Military to show up late game, but Religious will likely always be your dominant party.
I got militaristic with Lumeris too, and they are supose to gain half suport from anything from military ( because they are pacifist) . And i was with a heavy focus on dust/trade tecs, and lobing for the pacifist partie.
The problem I had is militaristic faction gaining a ton of support. I barely built enough ships to keep my territory safe (and only after coming under attack), but they won two elections in a row, despite all the science/whatever system improvements.
At present it seems like constructing something affects party popularity. While not bad in itself, this system needs tweaking. For example, it might be better if everything continuously affects party standing, and recent construction has less of an effect. Just because I'm not building any science improvements (because I already built all the available ones) doesn't mean my people would stop being scientifically inclined (it might even make more sense for the effect to build up over time, since military ships come and go, but laboratories remain).
Did a Voydani run where I tried to take advantage of righteous fury, only to have it derailed by an overwhelming militarist influence that rooted itself in my government by turn 40. I just tried keeping a fleet with each arc to bat off the Craver invasions, and building these ships spiked their support by like, 80 percent.
Didn't have this problem when I did Cravers though. In fact, if my government wasn't a dictatorship, the pacifists would of taken over. You think eating two minor civilizations would of prompted more aggression.
Probably this has to do with the fact that this is a alpha, but it seens to me that the major faction population and initial political partie lose very early and very rapidly. To the point of not feeling that im playing that faction.
Althought i find very cool the minor factions integration and the whole political system, i think that the major population and initial political partie should be a lot stronger.
All of my games have had the Militarist political party constantly gaining dominant status. It's either them or the Industrialists because I focus a lot on production output to provide a steady science boost after Era 3. Want to try a party without needing to defend yourself? Welp too bad, you built a corvette so the Militarists are now your overlords.
The way the parties' support is influenced by decisions is backwards at the moment. Voters should react against decisions they disagree with by voting for the party that is closest to their views, but the way the system is designed at the moment, populations basically just shrug and say 'meh' to decisions they should completely hate.
For example, build a science improvement, and Religious-inclined voters react with a small increase in their support for the Scientists party. That makes no sense. They should react by increasing their support for the Religious party.
In the real world, people tend to vote against things they hate more than they vote for things they like. And building this dynamic into the game would create political consequences for decisions that are unacceptable to your population.
So:
If you start a war, or build lots of warships, pacifists in your population should switch support to the anti-war party in protest. But militarists in your population will be filled with jingoistic fervour and increase their support for the militarist party. Everyone else should more or less get on with their daily lives and continue voting for the status quo (i.e. it's not that much of an influence on them)
If you build factories all over nice green countryside, voters who care about the environment should switch to the Ecologist party. But the people who want to work in those factories (i.e. industrialist populations) should be delighted and increase support for the industrialist party. Everyone else shrugs and carries on.
If you knock down a church to build a laboratory in its place, religious folk should be outraged and vote for the religious party. But scientific populations should be delighted and vote for the scientific party. Everyone else says 'meh' and carries on more or less as before.
Political effect of laws
This should also be reflected in some laws. Passing a controversial law should create consequences in terms of political support ('Dust not Rust' should increase support for Ecologist and Industrialist parties among populations already inclined toward them). Some laws should even directly undermine the support of the party whose law it is (e.g. the Industrialists' 'Work not Shirk' Bill should hurt the support for the Industrialist party among Industrial-ish voters - as it is an example of a party directly attacking the interests of the voters who support it - i.e. factory workers).
Local politics
Here's an idea to make things even more interesting: depending on the system of government, the dominant party in each system should affect build costs of system developments or ships. E.g. there should be a penalty on building science improvements in a system with a lot of Religious representatives, but a bonus in a system with lots of senators for the Scientist party.
Party names
Wishful thinking here, but for the purposes of immersion, please could we have faction-specific names for the parties (alongside their Mil/Ind/Sci/Rel/Eco/Pac logo)? They could even be linked to the Heroes leading them.
Here's an idea to make things even more interesting: depending on the system of government, the dominant party in each system should affect build costs of system developments or ships. E.g. there should be a penalty on building science improvements in a system with a lot of Religious representatives, but a bonus in a system with lots of senators for the Scientist party.
That's a good idea. will make things interesting. But not sure they can or want to implement it.
I think one of the current issues is not how buildings affect support, but rather how other actions do.
From what I recall building a ship or an improvement both have the same amount of support given to a faction.
The issue comes from fleets winning combat, and gaining influence for EACH ship they killed. So you wipe a craver fleet and it's 6 times as much support than a simple building.
This makes some senese because if you're fighting a lot there should be support, but because the AI will always have small fleets to kill you're always going to be gaining a ton of influence there.
I think ideally ships you kill should give very little boost to your ideology unless you're at war, at which point it should be much more.
The Vodyani don't seem to have this issue, to that point where at turn 44 I still have 100% Religious... which to be honest is probably a bug of some sort.
I think I read somewhere (was it the game manual?) that the Vodyani do not tolerate other races in their population as a faction trait. But what I don't understand is how do the militarists get a part in the government despite this trait? It doesn't make sense.
The Vodyani don't seem to have this issue, to that point where at turn 44 I still have 100% Religious... which to be honest is probably a bug of some sort.
I think I read somewhere (was it the game manual?) that the Vodyani do not tolerate other races in their population as a faction trait. But what I don't understand is how do the militarists get a part in the government despite this trait? It doesn't make sense.
The Vodyani can and will divert from the Religious path as I've seen in my playthroughs. The fact that religious triggers have double the effect on them is no guarantee that they won't turn Militarists or Industrialists or whatever at some point.
It may happen later in game in comparison with the more "democratic" races, but it will happen.
See the picture of the population census that I posted above, where the Militarists have the upper hand and there are even a few Scientists (supposedly difficult for the Vodyani). At that time the Militarists had won 2 elections in a row.
I managed to bring the Religious back in power only by intimidating their rival parties. Financial campaign wasn't even close to being enough.
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Craver Core
Whatchamacallit.
gigabytemon
Craver Core
19 700g2g ptsReport comment
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Newcomer
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Cosmonaut
This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGLYu94U3IU remembers us that "impossible" is only a word.
VIPlo_fabre
Cosmonaut
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Eji1700
Newcomer
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idlih10
Newcomer
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Clockwork Automaton
Resistance is Futile, but don't worry about it.
vahouth
Clockwork Automaton
37 100g2g ptsReport comment
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