I don't see how they are OP. I've already encountered them with my Vodyani no less and they cannot seem to be able to keep up. 

From what I've seen so far, the AI is almost non existent. They literally never built any ship bigger than a Caravel and never upgraded their ship systems and weapons. 

All they can do is spam outposts that are also not even a threat when you play as the Vodyani.

Tahapenes wrote:

This game is almost normal difficulty (I haven't played above or below that difficulty setting).

I don't wan't be a dick, but if you are getting your ass kicked on normal, maybe it's not because AI/Faction is op...

The first faction I played were Lumeris and I felt like you they were OP untill I started playing Vodyani and learning them. And to be honest, I think Vodyani are even stronger (if they get a good start).

In a game with 16 systems with Lumeris in normal difficulty, I was technig about 2000 science per turn  at turn 100 whereas with Vodyani yesterday, I could hit 2500 sicence per turn at turn 100 with only 5 systems.

And I think despite Lumeris have awesome expanding power, they are very weak in the early game and can't get punished for over expansion.

With current game mechanics at the current stage the Lumeris are the weakest faction of the four, and henceforth definitely not OP.

I guess this will of course change later on as more mechanics come in. Lumeris have dust at their advantage, which right now does not do much.

Cravers have military might and production.

Sophons have Science.

Vodyani have it all.

The Lumeris are left out alone in the rain.

vahouth wrote:

The Vodyani are STRONG! And IMHO have the best damn heroes out there!

Their heroes are good, however the Craver heroes are better, they cannot be beaten as fleet heroes, and are part of the reasons why Cravers can take on the Vodyani.

Ashbery76 wrote:

Let's not get carried away with what is OP until we see the actual full game.You cannot assess 1/4 of a game.

Yes, it's hard to gauge a trading faction's effectiveness when 2 of the 4 races are geared towards all-war-all-the-time.

If they're more difficult as AIs than the other factions, it could be something in the AI scripts that works with their advantages really well. Given the Sophon factions in my matches tend to expand so quickly they kill themselves with Overcolonization happiness penalties, I suspect it could be the AI expands so much their populations are continuously Unhappy/Rebelling. The Lumeris's innate +20 Happiness trait would help them avoid that and thus be more productive.

Julot wrote:

The first faction I played were Lumeris and I felt like you they were OP untill I started playing Vodyani and learning them. And to be honest, I think Vodyani are even stronger (if they get a good start).

In a game with 16 systems with Lumeris in normal difficulty, I was technig about 2000 science per turn  at turn 100 whereas with Vodyani yesterday, I could hit 2500 sicence per turn at turn 100 with only 5 systems.

And I think despite Lumeris have awesome expanding power, they are very weak in the early game and can't get punished for over expansion.

Well on current game i'm making 7377 sience per turn at turn 85 in hard difficulty with 2nd tier system dev rushed 2 HQ and dark matter rush with only 5 systems ^^

Voydani look sooo strong in my opinion right now !

I feel like Vodyani are the uncontested best right now.  The moment you find a target to leech and can get your first arc you basically take off and never look back.  They expand SO fast and with almost no cost to their fleets or empire, and it makes them monsters at expansion, let alone all their other unique bonuses.

Going back from the Vodyani to a 'vanilla' race like the Sophons, I think that the single biggest factor in their OP'ness is the ability to grow in scale without penalty or consequences. Handling approval is a piece of cake, and if you spend all your turns with nothing to build on getting more Leechers, you can just keep getting bigger and better at everything, no strings attached. In terms of trade, I could just acquire many more nodes to secure better trade routes compared to the Lumeris.

Putting a brake in their expansion should be enough to tone them down IMHO. They shouldn't be immune to over-expansion, their laws are enough in this regard.

The lumeris are only OP if your let them just expand, expand expand. The only reason they seem OP currently is because they get A LOT of score because of that expansion. However if you declare war on them with era 2 ships you will decimate them quickly, since they never seem to really upgrade what they have. (at least that is my current experience)

It was the same on larger maps in ES 1 if you played the sowers... if you just focused on expansion and worried about the rest later you would be unstoppable by mid game because you could use lava worlds for industry and nobody else could.. so you could literally swarm the galaxy with low cost ships and nobody could take you on. 

This is basically what lumeris tries to do in the alpha currently..... however since we only have the smaller map sizes it just does not work since it is so easy to counter. 

The second you see the lumeris... just declare war.. have about 2 era two ships.. and take over a few of their worlds until force truce hits in. 

SirBagel wrote:

Going back from the Vodyani to a 'vanilla' race like the Sophons, I think that the single biggest factor in their OP'ness is the ability to grow in scale without penalty or consequences. Handling approval is a piece of cake, and if you spend all your turns with nothing to build on getting more Leechers, you can just keep getting bigger and better at everything, no strings attached. In terms of trade, I could just acquire many more nodes to secure better trade routes compared to the Lumeris.

I have said it in another thread before: I do not think that is working as intended. Nothing in the Vodyani description or traits indicates that they should be immune to expansion disapproval and overpopulation disapproval.

I suspect that the Colony Base is involved in calculating at least Expansion Disapproval, possibly Overpopulation Disapproval as well. And Voyani Arks have a Cathedral of All Worldly Affairs instead of a Colony Base.