ENDLESS™ Space 2 is turn-based 4X space-strategy that launches players into the space colonization age of different civilizations within the ENDLESS™ Universe. Your Vision. Their Future.
For those confused by the title update 1 confirms that we'll be losing weapon restrictions. Right now certain hulls can only have certain weapon types (kinetic, laser, beam, and missile now to be refered to as K/L/B/M), but this change will allow any weapon type on any hull.
I'm really concerned about this. While I did not love the initial implementation, I liked that such a system, with tweaking (especially per race) would not only promote mixed fleets rather than "build as many of the most efficient ship possible" but give the hulls themselves character and strategic weight. I'm sure there's some plan to somehow differentiate hulls beyond more than slots and weight (i'm assuming at the very least support modules will still be locked based on hull type), but I really don't see anything fun coming from having 100% unlocked weapons.
In fact my biggest concern is it leads to the very tedious and shallow weapon slot shuffle. I see my opponent is running mostly K's and L's for missile defense and mid to long range battle (of note weapon damage here is mixed so we don't have to touch on the shield/armor shuffle too), so I rip all the M's out of my ship and replace with B's and L's on the basis that i can soften him up at mid range and win the DPS race at close. So he tears out his K's now that I don't have M's and puts in M's of his own to kill me before we get to close range....and so the cycle continues.
This is not interesting and it's only limited by being able to pay the refit costs (which makes dust even more important as a race without dust will never win a war vs a race with dust thanks to refits). Having weapons types somewhat locked to hull means you cannot do this. Instead you're looking at their fleet composition (something you can actually tell by hitting them with a probe making that system more interesting as well) and going from there. Scouting will now matter so that your fleet is ready to handle theirs, and making sure you build certain types of ships (K users for anti M for example) is actually important.
I don't think the current system is perfect by any means for the record. I'd much rather have hull tech split up and paired with another tech at that level, and have hull weapon types be unique among races (cravers given more access to B/M's due to all out hive nature, while sophons maybe have more L/B access as an energy bias, etc). This allows you to also prepare fleets based on your neighbors, and makes hull research more nuanced (well I certainly don't need the missile boat hull, but at the same time I do want the tech that comes with it). Hell the only thing special about the final hull right now is that it is a jack of all trades that can fit whatever role is needed (something I actually wouldn't mind seeing changed to better represent each race though).
Anyways I do hate making a topic like this before we've seen the changes as I know that hull variety was a stated goal for ES2 at some point, so I do believe they'll try something to keep that if weapon variation isn't going to be it, but I can't help but feel there's a lot of potential being thrown out completely here.
Partially agree. For me the actual system with limited weapons in each hull is not a problem, but in the other way, having a hull like the Vodyani Rack that can only have a weapon (without upgrading tech), and it's always kinetics, may be a bit meh.
As I share your ideas about aving 1 hull = 1 role, and give limits in modules that can be put in each hull, I think it may be better if you forbid some modules, instead of limiting to only one kind of weapon. So consider as an example: the rack can have all except missiles, can be the "middle way", to avoid fixing it only one weapon, and at the same time mantaining its personality.
But agree it's very soon to say, so I'll try to refrain posting again until I can give it a try.
We totally understand your concerns and we need to avoid the situation where players will have to totally modify their ship designs in front of a new opponent or a new strategy, because they can do anything with their ships.
We’ve decided to remove the weapon limitation, after some discussions with players and the team, because it was a very hard constraint that leads to unbalance issues and inflexibility.
However, we have some plans to avoid too much flexibility
We will give specific advantages per ship role and per faction, in order to specialise them (in a weapon type / family, for specific modules (special support for example), with the targeting heuristics etc.)
We will create ways to favour synergies, for example for energy or ballistic modules (with support modules), flotilla (with special support modules on support ships) or fleet (with play cards) etc.
We will encourage players to specialize their empire with play cards, better technologies distribution, and the future tech tree changes (with maybe excluding links)
Some of these changes will not be in the next update so it could temporary lead to the problems you mentioned... But we're working on it!
We totally understand your concerns and we need to avoid the situation where players will have to totally modify their ship designs in front of a new opponent or a new strategy, because they can do anything with their ships.
We’ve decided to remove the weapon limitation, after some discussions with players and the team, because it was a very hard constraint that leads to unbalance issues and inflexibility.
However, we have some plans to avoid too much flexibility
We will give specific advantages per ship role and per faction, in order to specialise them (in a weapon type / family, for specific modules (special support for example), with the targeting heuristics etc.)
We will create ways to favour synergies, for example for energy or ballistic modules (with support modules), flotilla (with special support modules on support ships) or fleet (with play cards) etc.
We will encourage players to specialize their empire with play cards, better technologies distribution, and the future tech tree changes (with maybe excluding links)
Some of these changes will not be in the next update so it could temporary lead to the problems you mentioned... But we're working on it!
Thanks for your your feedback!
Nice to see you're on it! :)
Any ETA when the next Update will be released? The latest information was afaik that it'll be sometime next week.
We totally understand your concerns and we need to avoid the situation where players will have to totally modify their ship designs in front of a new opponent or a new strategy, because they can do anything with their ships.
We’ve decided to remove the weapon limitation, after some discussions with players and the team, because it was a very hard constraint that leads to unbalance issues and inflexibility.
However, we have some plans to avoid too much flexibility
We will give specific advantages per ship role and per faction, in order to specialise them (in a weapon type / family, for specific modules (special support for example), with the targeting heuristics etc.)
We will create ways to favour synergies, for example for energy or ballistic modules (with support modules), flotilla (with special support modules on support ships) or fleet (with play cards) etc.
We will encourage players to specialize their empire with play cards, better technologies distribution, and the future tech tree changes (with maybe excluding links)
Some of these changes will not be in the next update so it could temporary lead to the problems you mentioned... But we're working on it!
Thanks for your your feedback!
Awesome to hear, especially if things might get a little worse before they get better.
I especially like the idea of more synergy between modules, ships, and roles.
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