This was the biggest disappointment about endless legends. Laer factions had a billion unique techs, skills, and quest rewards while the early stage factions had +1 industry or something silly like that and zero unique techs.

Please make them all be unique

Also, make politics mean something to every faction. Right now it seems there is no point to do anything other then beat the devil out of everyone.

I don't agree with it on EL as most factions feel pretty different to me regarding to gameplay and I'd love to see the same happen to ES 2. ES 1 is the game where most factions were pretty close and were mostly numbers away from each other if that's what you mean. In the current version of ES 2 the Vodyani and Horatio are a good example of how it should be done and I'm very happy to have them on board! They have their own unique gameplay and don't feel like a number away from another facton. The Cravers are up for quite the gameplay as well once their mechanics are properly implemented and they can start the devouring. 

The UE, Sophons and Lumeris atm though are pretty similar with the only difference being focus on industry, science and/or dust where Lumeris have a little change in how they colonize where I feel they could be pulled a bit more extreme to be the real maffia of the galaxy (having influence into the politics of their opponents via money and influence for example). But that said I do feel there should be at least one vanilla like faction in the game so people can start it off and have the core experience first before diving deeper into all the alternatives. For example EL had the Windwalkers which were quite good to start the game with as they had tons of food, nice turtling abilities with their ranged which gave them a lot of safety to starting players and really played in on the core mechanics without too much info on the other aspects. Ofc once you played others and returned to them you'd know better what to do and optimalize them but they were very user/beginner friendly. Once you had a game with them you could try Vaulters or Broken Lords and expand from there. 

I have a feeling the Sophons and the UE take this core gameplay vanilla spot and I feel it's fine although it would be cool to give the Sophons some more unique research to play with.

sophons should have very dangerous tech

Something like, Anomaly exploition - After 5 turns an anomaly will either get buffed by double in either the positive or negative effect. The effect not changed is instead removed.

Can only be used once per planet

THis goes right into their lore of reckless scientific research.

godman85 wrote:

sophons should have very dangerous tech

Something like, Anomaly exploition - After 5 turns an anomaly will either get buffed by double in either the positive or negative effect. The effect not changed is instead removed.

Can only be used once per planet

THis goes right into their lore of reckless scientific research.

Although I think that's a sweet idea as reckless science would fit them well I don't think the game needs RNG deciding whether they are stronger or weaker than others at that point as that would be frustrating both for opponents as the player itself. But I definitely agree that something more 'experimenting' would be sweet! 

godman85 wrote:

This was the biggest disappointment about endless legends. Laer factions had a billion unique techs, skills, and quest rewards while the early stage factions had +1 industry or something silly like that and zero unique techs.

Please make them all be unique

Also, make politics mean something to every faction. Right now it seems there is no point to do anything other then beat the devil out of everyone.

Every faction in Endless Legend IS unique, but I agree with your sentiments about politics.

Nasarog wrote:

godman85 wrote:

This was the biggest disappointment about endless legends. Laer factions had a billion unique techs, skills, and quest rewards while the early stage factions had +1 industry or something silly like that and zero unique techs.

Please make them all be unique

Also, make politics mean something to every faction. Right now it seems there is no point to do anything other then beat the devil out of everyone.

Every faction in Endless Legend IS unique, but I agree with your sentiments about politics.

some were WAY MORE unique then others.

the default factions used hardly any points while the default vaulters were overcapped. Additionall, the vaulters had like 4 UNIQUE TECHS on top of the quest rewards while the wildwalkers had 0 unique techs at all.

some were WAY MORE unique then others.

the default factions used hardly any points while the default vaulters were overcapped. Additionall, the vaulters had like 4 UNIQUE TECHS on top of the quest rewards while the wildwalkers had 0 unique techs at all.

Unique = / = Unique research though. EL was way more about different gameplay (focus) while playing than different research. The Vaulters and Windwalkers were quite close but can be considered the vanilla races in my eyes. Easy to learn the game with and quite safe to play with their ranged. The Windwalkers were never about tech so thus they don't have much unique tech vs the Vaulters who were all about tech. 

It's probably a good thing overall to have some simpler factions: it gives new players a safer entry-point. There is a tendency for later factions to be more exotic, because the more hours people have playing the game, the more "weirdness" is necessary to renew the experience for them. Factions added later can also be designed around a stable base-game, so can take more risks: it's harder to do so when the cross-faction gameplay is still in flux.

wilbefast wrote:

It's probably a good thing overall to have some simpler factions: it gives new players a safer entry-point. There is a tendency for later factions to be more exotic, because the more hours people have playing the game, the more "weirdness" is necessary to renew the experience for them. Factions added later can also be designed around a stable base-game, so can take more risks: it's harder to do so when the cross-faction gameplay is still in flux.

Only thing I'd say to that is that having one simple faction is typically enough (Usually the humans in most games). That way new players have a "start here" kind of faction, but those who will sink a couple hundred hours in still have reasons for replay value. There's no real benefit to having a bunch of simple races.

I see what you're saying, and I tend to agree about each faction being more unique. I liked that they had a few unique techs in ES 1, and I wish for them to have the same and more in ES 2.

Romeo wrote:

wilbefast wrote:

It's probably a good thing overall to have some simpler factions: it gives new players a safer entry-point. There is a tendency for later factions to be more exotic, because the more hours people have playing the game, the more "weirdness" is necessary to renew the experience for them. Factions added later can also be designed around a stable base-game, so can take more risks: it's harder to do so when the cross-faction gameplay is still in flux.

Only thing I'd say to that is that having one simple faction is typically enough (Usually the humans in most games). That way new players have a "start here" kind of faction, but those who will sink a couple hundred hours in still have reasons for replay value. There's no real benefit to having a bunch of simple races.

I think two more vanilla factions are required as a basis to work and iterate on for balance and structure. Doesn't mean the Sophons couldn't have some end game goodies in the tech tree others don't though ;)

Nasarog wrote:

I see what you're saying, and I tend to agree about each faction being more unique. I liked that they had a few unique techs in ES 1, and I wish for them to have the same and more in ES 2.

We do plan to add more faction technologies - again we're waiting until things are a little more settled: during the final phase of balancing these technologies will be a useful lever to have up our sleeve

And we are aware that the Sophons are not quite are sexy as they might be - we'll do a balance pass (or fifty) on all the factions once they're all in the game.