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Thoughts on Influence

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8 years ago
Feb 10, 2017, 7:35:43 AM

So, I've been trying and revisiting old factions lately and exploring this update, as I find it a particularly invigorating and interesting change to the game.  I've played three games in succession: the United Empire, the Lumeris and the Vodyani, and the Lumeris game was exceedingly interesting for a variety of reasons which I'll get to later, but one thing that jumped out at me has been influence and how various factions use it, or don't.


The primary uses of Influence seem to be diplomacy, taking over your opponents with the spread of your influence, and politics.  The United Empire has a new trick, which is that they can spend their influence on basically everything,  up to and including (to my surprise) technology!  Wow, what a change!  The result was that I wanted as much influence as I could get my hands on, and why not?


With the Lumeris game, I ended up doing the same, mostly because I had the money to do so, but also because the Vodyani and I were competing over a territory and I wanted to control it peacefully, because, as a pacifist, the last thing I wanted was a war (and ES2 gives you some really interesting options for kicking the tar out of someone without declaring war).  Then, something occurred as I was engaged in an influence fight: I had tons of influence and nothing to spend it on.


See, when my political stuff would kick in, I could just pay for any political changes I needed, and none of my laws required more than about a thousand influence, and I was earning that every turn.  Even forcing a planet to change hands turned to be pretty affordable, mainly because I had nothing else to spend my influence on.  I accrued tons of it, and had no use for it.  Contrast this with Endless Legend, where once every X turns, you had to pay for your Plan, which meant that having gobs and gobs of influence turned into a well-run Empire.


(Incidentally, I conquered the Vodyani world with my influence and the net result is that you get Vodyani living on a planet under your rule.  How peculiar!)


Finally, I've just started a Vodyani game and I've looked at my influence and I know I'm "supposed" to stockpile the stuff, because we're Vodyani and Vodyani are deeply religious... but I'm not sure why I would.  I'll never gain a minority race in the political process who will demand that I switch to a different political system.  Federation is pretty cheap for messing with politics anyway.  You can use that influence to brainwash a minor faction, but then someone can just come in and sweep it out from under you, so that seems a poor investment when you can just put some military ships on top of it and gain some sweet combat xp while you also leech from them, while brainwashing gives you... what exactly?  The text seems to imply you gain their "minor faction trait," but I haven't seen what that manifests as yet (Need to brainwash a minor faction first), and when you absorb a world with Influence, at least the last time I did, you wipe the population.  From my experience, the things you want as a Vodyani are gobs and gobs of food or gobs and gobs of dust, or both, and then solid military power.

Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Feb 11, 2017, 7:41:21 AM

Here's what you get in the current model: When you brainwash, you gain access to the assimilation trait and +25 leech per turn.


Incidentally, the assimilation traits are still very much in the game.  You can see them on your Empire screen.

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8 years ago
Feb 12, 2017, 11:40:44 AM

I too would very much like to have something to pour influence at. In my first game as the Vodyani I had about one gazillion influence, mostly because producing it allowed me to cleanse planets (of inferior life forms) without having to get my hands dirty (I like to think they all commit mass-suicide because of how awesome I am).

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8 years ago
Feb 12, 2017, 3:55:12 PM

In EL, Empire Plans scaled with how many cities you had and you generally wanted to spend as much as you could. Unless you were playing Drakken or Morgawr, you'd spend almost all your influence every empire plan.


In ES2, basically everyone (except UE) gets a huge influence surplus in the lategame. I'm not sure if election action costs scale with how many systems you have right now (they probably do), but they should probably scale even more. Another thing to help with this might be adding influence inflation in the same way it's applied to dust. People get used to your culture after all. Perhaps diplomatic agreements should have scaling costs so that they're not trivial switches to pull in the lategame. In any case, I'm sure they're aware of this stuff and will do some balancing around it before release, but right now it's not that big of a deal. It's a problem, but a pretty small one.

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8 years ago
Feb 12, 2017, 4:02:06 PM

Here's another option: Why is tech associated with how many law slots or senatorial slots you get?  Why not influence? We have a screen for spending manpower (not tech!) on improved infantry and tanks, why not influence to improve your government?


If we want to make sure people need to spend buckets of it, you could require said influence every election.  For example, say you have a Dictatorship with 1 law slot and 1 senatorial slot.  As a dictatorship, you can never increase sentatorial slots, but perhaps you can spend 10,000 influence for +1 law slot that lasts until the next election.  Perhaps as a democracy, you have 3 law slots base and 2 senatorial slots, but you can increase senatorial slots at 1,000 influence per slot, and +1 law slot at 2500 per slot.  This would represent how well each "regime" manages their government, and you could spend said influence immediately following the election, after you see if the results are worth it ("Oh great, I was able to hold onto Science, but hey, industry came in second, that's an interesting result, let's buff my law slot options and pass a bunch of laws for the next 20 turns")

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8 years ago
Feb 12, 2017, 5:36:23 PM

Someone elsewhere on the forums suggested capping Influence the same way you cap Manpower, forcing players to think very hard about how to spend their influence, because even if they produce a ton they still have a hard limit on how much to spend at once. I think if that were combined with making deals Influence/turn rather than a lump sum, you'd get interesting tug of war in politics, so for example when dealing with Minor Factions you would allot an influence budget to them, in an effort to slowly outpace any competitors who are also courting that minor faction. That way you can't just snipe them, though you'd then need more complex and nuanced Minor Faction diplomacy benefits to fit the subtle and slow nature of this system; currently, it's all-or-nothing benefits to fit an all-or-nothing diplomatic mechanic with minor factions.


I do very much like the idea of turning the Senate into a playground for Influence use, though! Make it sort of a very complex, constantly interactive aspect of the game; spend Influence not only enacting laws, but going out of your way to CAUSE the kinds of political events you normally would get randomly. You could even enshrine certain laws as longer-term Programs or Departments, like how no matter which parties are in power, there are some government services that no politician in their right mind dares mess with, like retirement benefits or medical aid programs. Yes, that medical program began as an Ecologist law, and the Industrialist party is in power now, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be political suicide to try and abolish it. So you could upgrade an existing Law by allocating a permanent budget of Influence and (maybe) Dust, allowing that law to survive multiple administrations as long as the budget keeps rolling on; then a new random event could be the current Party showing hostility to the law, and trying to get rid of it, requiring a lump sum of something or other to fend off their budget cuts.

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