ENDLESS™ Space 2 is turn-based 4X space-strategy that launches players into the space colonization age of different civilizations within the ENDLESS™ Universe. Your Vision. Their Future.
Don't worry about purposedly replicating it - just enjoy the game. However if you do run in a similar situation in the same game, or in your next one, try and keep the save aside for us AI brain-pickers :).
Since we cant agree that a planet with, lets say 1 pop, would have more or less manpower than a fleet, (its not a nor b and it cant be C so it must be D ((we do not have enough info to choose)), then a good idea would be to attach manpower garrison numbers in a system to percentages and other quantifiable parameters (math incoming!)
Manpower in system = amount of pop in planets * Garrison improvement percentage * 100
So the amount of pop in planets would reflect the number of planets that your empire inhabits and the garrison improvement would be a percentage multiplication.
400 = 4 * 0% * 100
So the 400 manpower comes from multiplying the number of pop times the percentage rate that the improvements gives you times 100.
Each improvement could stack into each other or not (balance issue that needs testing or more math). There could be other improvements that could take into account the number of planets (missile battery installations in each planet)
(System with 3 planets, 4 pop, no other improvement apart from the missile battery improvement)
1200 = 4 * 0% * 100 * 3
(System with 3 planets, 10 pop, missile battery improvement and another t1 improvement (impenetrable bunkers) that give 50%))
= 10 * 50% (50% of 10 is 5) * 100 * 3
= 15,000 Manpower
With this last example its kinda extreme but you get the picture, right!?
Since we cant agree that a planet with, lets say 1 pop, would have more or less manpower than a fleet, (its not a nor b and it cant be C so it must be D ((we do not have enough info to choose)), then a good idea would be to attach manpower garrison numbers in a system to percentages and other quantifiable parameters (math incoming!)
Manpower in system = amount of pop in planets * Garrison improvement percentage * 100
So the amount of pop in planets would reflect the number of planets that your empire inhabits and the garrison improvement would be a percentage multiplication.
400 = 4 * 0% * 100
So the 400 manpower comes from multiplying the number of pop times the percentage rate that the improvements gives you times 100.
Each improvement could stack into each other or not (balance issue that needs testing or more math). There could be other improvements that could take into account the number of planets (missile battery installations in each planet)
(System with 3 planets, 4 pop, no other improvement apart from the missile battery improvement)
1200 = 4 * 0% * 100 * 3
(System with 3 planets, 10 pop, missile battery improvement and another t1 improvement (impenetrable bunkers) that give 50%))
= 10 * 50% (50% of 10 is 5) * 100 * 3
= 15,000 Manpower
With this last example its kinda extreme but you get the picture, right!?
Note that population already generates food, which generates manpower. Moreover, local resistance "consumes" population for manpower, so a highly populated world can hold out longer than a poorly populated world. But if there was anything that indicated how "built up" a civilization is, it would be the settlement level. We could introduce higher maximum manpower totals via system level, though I believe there's already an option for increasing manpower via resources (though perhaps this could be revised, something like superior ground defense).
Jhell's post reminded me of another issue that might be related: It might be too easy to win ground battles. I remember in ES1 that ground battles could be absolutely grueling. In ES2, I've noticed it's very hard to get more than about 500 manpower per planet, and that's fairly easy to overwhelm. When I fought the sophons, I brought about 400 manpower vs about 200-300 manpower, and the computer would almost always choose Local Resistance (to the point where he had zero pop, which is a bug I think has already been noted). That made it very hard to win... so I started to swing around about 20 ships, for about 2000 manpower (which isn't actually that much, as I've had cruisers with 2000 manpower on each one during a Craver playthrough. It's very doable with exotic rations and the amount of population I was getting from turn to turn), which would absolutely overwhelm the planet, so that I would win in one invasion and thus prevent multiple turns of local resistance.
So the problem might not be that the ships don't fight pirates (though I'd like to look into that, as it seemed that people wouldn't even attack smaller pirate fleets), but that at a certain cut off point, you're essentially guaranteed of victory.
This!
Maybe on empire management lvl 4 or Weapon lvl 4, instead of making a new building that gives you 10000 manpower per system, you improve the bunkers for them to give double the amount or triple but raise cost as well. It would also be building a planetary mega bunker and super expensive but just an idea. It is silly to think that a fleet has more manpower than an entire planet!
late game you will always have victory in invasion.
Well it depends on the population of a planet. It would be highly illogical to assume that a colony has billions of people from the get go.
Most likely there are a few thousand at first on the entire planet. That number could increase to 1 million (generous estimation, taking into account futuristic fertility and healthcare tech) in the first decade, (not accounting for future immigration from other planets).
It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that a large fleet containing several Dreadnaughts could have a larger manpower than a fresh colony.
I would argue the opposite. The colonies are clearly designed to have huge populations (If you read some of the techs from the first game, virtualization is one of the population boosters, simply because there's no more space to stuff people in). Which makes a fully loaded system (IE, multiple planets of ten billion people each) being taken over by a couple invasion ships particularly puzzling. I understand some suspension of belief must occur in the name of gameplay, but the fact I can load up a trio of space ships with enough personnel to logistically fight a population of tens of billions with almost no resistance is seriously pushing it.
Systems absolutely need more defensive improvements.
Jhell's post reminded me of another issue that might be related: It might be too easy to win ground battles. I remember in ES1 that ground battles could be absolutely grueling. In ES2, I've noticed it's very hard to get more than about 500 manpower per planet, and that's fairly easy to overwhelm. When I fought the sophons, I brought about 400 manpower vs about 200-300 manpower, and the computer would almost always choose Local Resistance (to the point where he had zero pop, which is a bug I think has already been noted). That made it very hard to win... so I started to swing around about 20 ships, for about 2000 manpower (which isn't actually that much, as I've had cruisers with 2000 manpower on each one during a Craver playthrough. It's very doable with exotic rations and the amount of population I was getting from turn to turn), which would absolutely overwhelm the planet, so that I would win in one invasion and thus prevent multiple turns of local resistance.
So the problem might not be that the ships don't fight pirates (though I'd like to look into that, as it seemed that people wouldn't even attack smaller pirate fleets), but that at a certain cut off point, you're essentially guaranteed of victory.
This!
Maybe on empire management lvl 4 or Weapon lvl 4, instead of making a new building that gives you 10000 manpower per system, you improve the bunkers for them to give double the amount or triple but raise cost as well. It would also be building a planetary mega bunker and super expensive but just an idea. It is silly to think that a fleet has more manpower than an entire planet!
late game you will always have victory in invasion.
Well it depends on the population of a planet. It would be highly illogical to assume that a colony has billions of people from the get go.
Most likely there are a few thousand at first on the entire planet. That number could increase to 1 million (generous estimation, taking into account futuristic fertility and healthcare tech) in the first decade, (not accounting for future immigration from other planets).
It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that a large fleet containing several Dreadnaughts could have a larger manpower than a fresh colony.
Jhell's post reminded me of another issue that might be related: It might be too easy to win ground battles. I remember in ES1 that ground battles could be absolutely grueling. In ES2, I've noticed it's very hard to get more than about 500 manpower per planet, and that's fairly easy to overwhelm. When I fought the sophons, I brought about 400 manpower vs about 200-300 manpower, and the computer would almost always choose Local Resistance (to the point where he had zero pop, which is a bug I think has already been noted). That made it very hard to win... so I started to swing around about 20 ships, for about 2000 manpower (which isn't actually that much, as I've had cruisers with 2000 manpower on each one during a Craver playthrough. It's very doable with exotic rations and the amount of population I was getting from turn to turn), which would absolutely overwhelm the planet, so that I would win in one invasion and thus prevent multiple turns of local resistance.
So the problem might not be that the ships don't fight pirates (though I'd like to look into that, as it seemed that people wouldn't even attack smaller pirate fleets), but that at a certain cut off point, you're essentially guaranteed of victory.
This!
Maybe on empire management lvl 4 or Weapon lvl 4, instead of making a new building that gives you 10000 manpower per system, you improve the bunkers for them to give double the amount or triple but raise cost as well. It would also be building a planetary mega bunker and super expensive but just an idea. It is silly to think that a fleet has more manpower than an entire planet!
late game you will always have victory in invasion.
Jhell's post reminded me of another issue that might be related: It might be too easy to win ground battles. I remember in ES1 that ground battles could be absolutely grueling. In ES2, I've noticed it's very hard to get more than about 500 manpower per planet, and that's fairly easy to overwhelm. When I fought the sophons, I brought about 400 manpower vs about 200-300 manpower, and the computer would almost always choose Local Resistance (to the point where he had zero pop, which is a bug I think has already been noted). That made it very hard to win... so I started to swing around about 20 ships, for about 2000 manpower (which isn't actually that much, as I've had cruisers with 2000 manpower on each one during a Craver playthrough. It's very doable with exotic rations and the amount of population I was getting from turn to turn), which would absolutely overwhelm the planet, so that I would win in one invasion and thus prevent multiple turns of local resistance.
So the problem might not be that the ships don't fight pirates (though I'd like to look into that, as it seemed that people wouldn't even attack smaller pirate fleets), but that at a certain cut off point, you're essentially guaranteed of victory.
So I managed to take a look at your save (716); the AI actually gets that fleet out of the hangar if you manage to fail your ground battle (pick Blitz), because two turns later it will complete a ship.
The issue is that it thinks it needs a set fleet size to get it out of the hangar, when it could probably beat you with what's already in its hangar (several medium ships). So definitely an issue there. I'm suspecting it might be the same for what you experienced Mailanka.
We'll start working on a solution.
EDIT: you actually have to pass two turns after you fail the ground battle.
I'm in London for the Make War Not Love but I'll take a look at all these when I'm back in Paris next week.
*\o\* */o/* Give me a W, give me a I, give me a L, give me a B, give me a E, give me a F, give me a A, give me a S, give me a T, Wilbefast, yay !! *\o\* */o/*
So, I played a game as the Lumeris and, wanting to emphasize my pacifism and maintain peaceful ties with everyone while still destabilizing any mounting threats, I used two tactics. First, I bought up systems nearby any power I found, and then gave them away to other powers, to get them to fight among themselves (This didn't really happen, though it seemed to slow expansion somewhat, and meant I didn't have to worry about overcolonization). Second, I resorted to piracy.
The first worked well enough, though I'll note in the new system, having any outpost anywhere means that you send a stream of food at it and it can pop into a colony much faster than expected. This wasn't how Lumeris used to work, and it makes them less of "planet brokers" and more of "I can colonize really fast." Just a note.
The second was very effective. Devastatingly effective. Too effective. I bought some mercenary ships, ran up the pirate flag, and made my way to enemy empires. The prowler model can even transport manpower, so I loaded some troops up. They can only do a single, rather ineffective invasion action (TBD_Pirate_Raid) but with enough of them, you can do the job. Should you conquer a planet, it becomes a pirate planet, which I was also fine with.
What struck me was that nobody fought them. At one point, I was invading the United Empire homeworld, and I could see they had 14 ships in their hangar, and I just sat there for a few turns, besieging the system, waiting for him to counter-attack, but he never did. He just let me invade and crush him. This was largely my experience in all systems. The enemy factions never brought their ships against my pirates. I did have an overwhelming number of ships at a few points, but it seems a waste to just let your ships be destroyed via invasion like that. It seems to me that this is bugged. Either they don't think I can invade because Pirates aren't intended to invade, in which case that option should be removed, or they can invade, in which case the AI should respond to them as though they could.
Finally, a random aside: I've been trying the Vodyani and I'm still dissatisfied with brainwashing, as assimilation is better in all ways. Why not borrow a page from the Cult of the Eternal End, and give Vodyani free mercenary ships from brainwashed system every X turns?
Don't worry about purposedly replicating it - just enjoy the game. However if you do run in a similar situation in the same game, or in your next one, try and keep the save aside for us AI brain-pickers :).
I'm sorry I haven't responded yet. I've been very busy. I've checked and the only two saves I have from that game are from after that moment. I have some pirate ships sitting in orbit with a single ship in its hangar that isn't responding, but that might be perfectly rational ("My one ship has no hope of defeating 8"), but 14 is a different story. I'll have to try to replicate the situation, but I don't know when I'll have time to do that.
What struck me was that nobody fought them. At one point, I was invading the United Empire homeworld, and I could see they had 14 ships in their hangar, and I just sat there for a few turns, besieging the system, waiting for him to counter-attack, but he never did.
You wouldn't happen to have a save would you? I'd very much like to probe this United Empire AI's brain...
I certainly have a save from that game. I'll see if it goes back far enough to give you the data you want.
I'd need a save from a turn where there are 14 ships in the UE hangar in order to ask the AI "why you no use ships?"
Put simply: I collect weird AI bugs - if you see something odd, send me a save where the odd thing is happening. Saves where an odd thing has previously happened won't be so much use though I'm afraid
Vodyani, I think, are the closest to piracy with the steal of essence and, since it nerf growth, the need of sending them away from your Empire.
However, I think the best faction by theme to be close to pirates should be Lumeris. They are basically Mafia/trader in space. They should be able to sponsor piracy, or get piracy immunity for their traderoute, maybe ? And other options ?
I think they already have blockade runner, though I'm not perfectly clear on how that works.
Vodyani, I think, are the closest to piracy with the steal of essence and, since it nerf growth, the need of sending them away from your Empire.
However, I think the best faction by theme to be close to pirates should be Lumeris. They are basically Mafia/trader in space. They should be able to sponsor piracy, or get piracy immunity for their traderoute, maybe ? And other options ?
What struck me was that nobody fought them. At one point, I was invading the United Empire homeworld, and I could see they had 14 ships in their hangar, and I just sat there for a few turns, besieging the system, waiting for him to counter-attack, but he never did.
You wouldn't happen to have a save would you? I'd very much like to probe this United Empire AI's brain...
I certainly have a save from that game. I'll see if it goes back far enough to give you the data you want.
What struck me was that nobody fought them. At one point, I was invading the United Empire homeworld, and I could see they had 14 ships in their hangar, and I just sat there for a few turns, besieging the system, waiting for him to counter-attack, but he never did.
You wouldn't happen to have a save would you? I'd very much like to probe this United Empire AI's brain...
Finally, a random aside: I've been trying the Vodyani and I'm still dissatisfied with brainwashing, as assimilation is better in all ways. Why not borrow a page from the Cult of the Eternal End, and give Vodyani free mercenary ships from brainwashed system every X turns?
The assimilation system is going to be reworked, so don't get too hung up on how things currently work
Free mercenaries might be interesting, but the Vodyani are a very strange faction - we don't want to make them so different that they become effectively a whole other game
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