Greetings citizens of the United Empire!

I've noticed that the trait diligant workers got removed... and now the United Empire traits feel kinda empty compared to other factions with just 2 real traits. So are they getting something new in future patches? And what would you suggest to make them more interesting? Let me hear what you think.

Hi Shin!

Just my thoughts on this.

Emperor's Will in conjunction with their population influence bonus already makes them arguably the strongest race in the game. I struggle with everyone else on serious difficulty, but UE makes it feel like a walk in the park. You research fast if you use influence buyouts, you produce loads of diplomatic pressure, pacific takeover is easy and buffed by your pop bonuses, your ships are versatile and powerful, you naturally move towards industrial militarists (with your Hissho population) which, with the military and industrial laws in the current patch, makes you a military monster. On top of all that you can get some seriously strong upgrades through your quests.

The only real struggle can sometimes be those upkeep costs early in the game, but this becomes a non factor once you have trade routes going.

With all that in mind, I think taking out diligent workers was the right move. TBF it's not a very interesting trait, and it compounded with their other strengths too much. I don't think only having two traits (and Patriots is kind of meh) is bad at all when Emperor's Will does so much in defining the race. UE look and feel pretty unique without any statistical buffs. Even the music gives you the feel of commanding a vast, forged-in-iron juggernaut. So I disagree that the traits are kind of empty. That one trait alone completely changes the whole way of playing UE, and solidly defines them.

Putting my biases on the table here though - I'm really not a fan of MoO type statistical buffs. They rarely do much to influence gameplay, and do little to define the unique cultural qualities of different races. I understand that sometimes you need them to iron out certain balance aspects of them game. But I don't think just slapping another statistical trait on them is going to make them 'more interesting' partly because they are already a fun and interesting race to play.

Of course, if building great fleets to meet new peoples, and turning them into new patriots isn't your bag, there are plenty of other options to choose from. 

WeLoveYou wrote:

Hi Shin!

Just my thoughts on this.

Emperor's Will in conjunction with their population influence bonus already makes them arguably the strongest race in the game. I struggle with everyone else on serious difficulty, but UE makes it feel like a walk in the park. You research fast if you use influence buyouts, you produce loads of diplomatic pressure, pacific takeover is easy and buffed by your pop bonuses, your ships are versatile and powerful, you naturally move towards industrial militarists (with your Hissho population) which, with the military and industrial laws in the current patch, makes you a military monster. On top of all that you can get some seriously strong upgrades through your quests.

The only real struggle can sometimes be those upkeep costs early in the game, but this becomes a non factor once you have trade routes going.

With all that in mind, I think taking out diligent workers was the right move. TBF it's not a very interesting trait, and it compounded with their other strengths too much. I don't think only having two traits (and Patriots is kind of meh) is bad at all when Emperor's Will does so much in defining the race. UE look and feel pretty unique without any statistical buffs. Even the music gives you the feel of commanding a vast, forged-in-iron juggernaut. So I disagree that the traits are kind of empty. That one trait alone completely changes the whole way of playing UE, and solidly defines them.

Putting my biases on the table here though - I'm really not a fan of MoO type statistical buffs. They rarely do much to influence gameplay, and do little to define the unique cultural qualities of different races. I understand that sometimes you need them to iron out certain balance aspects of them game. But I don't think just slapping another statistical trait on them is going to make them 'more interesting' partly because they are already a fun and interesting race to play.

Of course, if building great fleets to meet new peoples, and turning them into new patriots isn't your bag, there are plenty of other options to choose from. 

Thank you for your detailed opinion. I agree that the United Empire was really OP and even now they are very strong and need some balance changes. But still it kinda feels that something is missing compared to the other factions. Traits can make a big difference in playstyle (just look at the big craver fleets or the fast travel II of the Sophons). Just the special ability alone shouldn't define them as a faction and it's basically just buyout with influence. Also I don't believe the Emperor's Will stay that strong in the future (because it's like you said amazingly powerful) so maybe we can throw in some ideas to make them feel even more special.
Chosing something different isn't an option for me because I really like the Empire. But I just think they still need some refining even if it's just a small trait. 

Shin wrote:

Traits can make a big difference in playstyle (just look at the big craver fleets or the fast travel II of the Sophons). 

Fair point taken.

I think ultimately this is going to boil down to aesthetic preferences. I find UE fun and interesting already. Some people don't (my partner is on your side on this - she calls them Industrial Megapole Empire and finds them too straightforward).

Maybe the way round this is to change up their population bonuses? The 50 pop bonus (currently a decrease on pacific conversion buyout) is essentially just a religious law, and it feels unnecessary given that they already produce so much influence. What about something that increases law effects (a bit like republic)? That would be pretty fitting given the totalitarian nature of the empire. It could even be a law in itself. Make it a 5 influence per pop law (for balance - that's at least -250 influence per turn, so feels fair) that adds a 50% bonus to all other law bonuses? Maybe call it Emperor's Mandate or something like that. Not sure how well this would balance out with the republic buff.  

WeLoveYou wrote:

Shin wrote:

Traits can make a big difference in playstyle (just look at the big craver fleets or the fast travel II of the Sophons). 

Fair point taken.

I think ultimately this is going to boil down to aesthetic preferences. I find UE fun and interesting already. Some people don't (my partner is on your side on this - she calls them Industrial Megapole Empire and finds them too straightforward).

Maybe the way round this is to change up their population bonuses? The 50 pop bonus (currently a decrease on pacific conversion buyout) is essentially just a religious law, and it feels unnecessary given that they already produce so much influence. What about something that increases law effects (a bit like republic)? That would be pretty fitting given the totalitarian nature of the empire. It could even be a law in itself. Make it a 5 influence per pop law (for balance - that's at least -250 influence per turn, so feels fair) that adds a 50% bonus to all other law bonuses? Maybe call it Emperor's Mandate or something like that. Not sure how well this would balance out with the republic buff.  

Don't get me wrong they are fun and intersting.  And I really like the human Empire and their Industry focus. :D Even if I kinda fear that the Riftborn took their titel cause they are damn good at industry, too.
But it just feels like somehting is kinda missing. It doesn't even need to be a positive trait because they are fairly strong...just something to spice their playstyle a little bit up and make them differentiate more from other factions than just buying everthing with influence.

But yeah , this could also be done instead of a trait. I really like your suggestion of the Emperor's Mandate it would really fit. It could be still balanced just by rejusting the cost or the bonus itself. And the focus on influence and growing Raian pop would be even stronger. Thanks for your suggestion.