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Inflence still not fair- Rifborn vs Riftborn

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8 years ago
Mar 28, 2017, 5:16:31 AM

Hi all

Playing as Rifborn vs Rftborn

I have a system that I colonised to prevent another empires influence expansion.  I have had this system for 120 turns and it is now a thriving metropolis full of happy pops.  All is well.  We have had a few skirmishes resulting in forced truce accepted on my behalf.  It is now turn 200 and we are in a truce.  My system is deep within his empires influence now.

Press next turn.

AI sends diplomatic message changing truce to cold war.  No probs he can do that.

He also sends a diplomatic message stating that he has taken my system and disbanded my trading subsidiary as I am within his area of influence.  

Now I have been in his area of influence all this time.  I am not given any option to buy out or suppress him in any way, just a hostile takeover.   This seems unfair and is saying that a system cannot live peacefully within another empires supposed borders.  I have a large fleet in permanent orbit to make my pops feel safe and secure.  They do not wish to be assimilated, but want to live in peace.  I can get around this by declaring war, which I do not want.  I also do not want to retake a system that I have already owned for a good portion of the game.  At the very least he should have been forced to field his fleets and declare war.  This would give me the chance to maintain a presence in a hostile neighbourhood.  

This game mechanic seems unreasonable as it forces the passive player to initiate war in order to protect the rights of his pops.  I can understand a passive conversion with the consent of the contested system, but not forced other than through war being declared first.  As you can imaging I am quite attached to my little isolated system and will fight tooth and nail to keep it.  Now my governor has been injured and out for 15 turns, through no fault of his own.  I am not a happy emperor.  Eternal war seems to be the order of the day.  I have despatched a second fleet to reinforce the system.  Now those Vodyani church freaks are up in arms over my aggressive tendances.  At least the Sophon tech nuts are keeping to themselves for now.


I reloaded the auto saves and no option to prevent this came up.  Normally we get a icon in system that tells us how many turns before conversion.  This popped up for a few seconds stating percentage of time before conversion.  0% but then diplomatic message over ruled this.  No option to do anything about it.


Forced to declare war and retake my system to continue game.  How did their invading troops get past my orbiting fleet I do not know.  The pops are still happy and are sending me drugs and goodies.



Also a neighbouring system that is unclaimed can not be colonised through effects of influence.  How can a system with no pops be influenced.  Any player ought to be able to establish outposts, wether they survive or not is a different matter.  

Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Mar 28, 2017, 7:54:24 AM

Now I have been in his area of influence all this time.

About this, there is something i need confirmation about : while in truce is the conversion still beginning ? Or do you have to be in cold war to begin the conversion.


Anyway, for your case, either the ennemy empire had so much influence he could instant buy your system or the conversion began while in truce so your system was ready to be converted once the truce ended.

This seems unfair and is saying that a system cannot live peacefully within another empires supposed borders.

On earth, a town isolated in the middle of a ennemy country has a greatly reduced lifespan ! Maintain it should be a continuous work (cf Berlin after WW2). But i agree we lack any kind of cultural tech to counter the conversion effect (by spending influence maybe ? Or maybe it exists and i didn't see it...)


Also a neighbouring system that is unclaimed can not be colonised through effects of influence.  How can a system with no pops be influenced. 

In cold war you cannot tresspass the borders of an empire. And trying to take a part of his land is pretty much tresspassing ^^


You have to see influence more like country borders. This is not really a sphere of cultural influence.

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8 years ago
Mar 28, 2017, 8:58:53 AM

While in truce there was no indication off a possible take over.  Only when AI player went to cold war status did this instantly happen.  This is in effect like declaring war.  My question is if you have control of a system then that is your border.  It is like Switzerland during WW2.  Independent yet within the sphere of Germany.  Now imagine Switzerland having a military might that would stop invasion of any kind.  

If you have a system that becomes surrounded by influence it is a cultural one.  The border may be disputed but its integrity remains unless challenged through war.  The British empire spread all over the world made up of isolated colonies, its influence was great yet not all countries belonged to it.  Borders must be agreed to by both sides.  Unwanted hostile take over is an act of war and any orbiting defending fleets need to be dealt with first.

Updated 8 years ago.
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8 years ago
Mar 28, 2017, 9:14:53 AM

I saw your problem from the other side.

During my riftborn run, i surrounded my ennemy systems with my influence. And while in truce i couldn't buy his systems, so i had to wait for the cold war, which happens automatically when truce ends, and it was kind of infuriating since all my strategy was based on buying those systems to expand my influence and defeat him without having to go to war.


As for your switzeland example, i see what you mean but it doesn't fit here. In ES2, it would be the case where you have only one system inside the borders of another empire.

The British empire is more like it. The ES2 system don't seem to do these kind of things. Or you have to go to war, take control of a system inside the influence borders and then... you can't keep it if your ennemy has cultural conversion since you don't have any countermove.


The biggest problem is that the influence zone sets the borders of your empire. And it is a perfectly round zone in the late game, no matter how your systems are disposed. So with enough influence, you can buy all the galaxy as long as you are in cold war.


The influence/cold war/conversion needs certainly to be revamped, or at least explained if you can counter it by any way or any tech.

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8 years ago
Mar 28, 2017, 9:20:27 AM

Yes I agree.

Then this game is allowing influence to become a victory condition of sorts.  Not rational for a strategy game where war becomes a mandatory necessity.  It needs fixing either by techs or neutral zones. 

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8 years ago
Mar 28, 2017, 9:27:36 AM

One way to counter is the diplomatic one.


If you make alliance (or at least peace i think) with an empire, it can't buy your systems via influence. But you have to possess the systems beforehand. It kind of locks your positions inside an empire influence. And then you could have a parallel to your switzerland example.


An idea that juste comes to my mind :


When you have a rebellion you have the choice to supress it by force or to pay to calm the people.


Why not put the same thing when another empire buy your system ? Give the player some time (one turn ? two turns ?) to spend influence or manpower to avoid this ?

or maybe it could be a power for a hero ? A good governor that is impervious to the ennemy influence ?

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8 years ago
Mar 28, 2017, 9:37:12 AM

I could see that working.  Another way would be to get red of influence at border level and let all player borders be defined by conquest or systems they have under their control.  Influence could be used for other things like asteroid resource distribution when on the edge of empires.  Cultural and trade buffs.  In other words don't let influence destroy a great game as it has been doing.  Its confusing for any player and when this game gets released many new players are going to find it frustrating.  


I am concerned that the AI is running the show.  Its like the player has no control over this pervading tide of influence that is spreading over the endless galaxy.

Updated 8 years ago.
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