solrac137 wrote:

Shin wrote:

Cravers seem to be some kind of insectoids with cybernetics. And did you ever see how far can insects fall from a very high tree and still be fine? Maybe they are similiar like that. Also there are insects out there that can lift up things that weigh 100 times more than their own body. Maybe this also explains their incredible strength. The cybernetics just seem to enhance their natural abilities even further. But that's just a theory. 

Hmm problema with that is that those 2 propieties of insect are dependant on their small size, insects survive high falls because due their reduced mass this means that they have a really low terminal speed and they are extremely strong compared to their size because they are really small.

https://www.quora.com/How-are-ants-so-strong

Cravers are really big 2.5 meters tall according to the artbook and they probably weight alot too maybe 150 - 200 kg assuming human like density , maybe more since they have alot of muscle and cybernetic implants but i doubt they weight more tan 300kg. 

That's interesting. I didn't know about that.

But what if the cybernetics are made of a special lightweight material? And here is another theory: Maybe they are genetically improved, too? In the Craver intro they were inside test tubes with some kind of fluid. Maybe their organic body was changed ,too. We know that the Endless have a lot of knowledge about genetics/cloning technology.

IZennock wrote:

So, I messaged Jeff Spock (the lead writer of Amplitude) and this is the response I got.

Slowhands wrote:

The basic idea with the Cravers is that they are cheap to manufacture and more or less disposable. In spite of that, it would of course be wasteful to toss them off of ships by the thousands and have only handfuls that survive.

So when we thought about the Craver invasion militias, we figured that whatever protection or survival gear they had it would be simple, basic, and cheap; something that improved the survival odds but wouldn't cost as much as equipment that would make survival a sure thing.

If you look at the concept art from our first game, you will see that some of them have prosthetic legs that are basically shock absorbing metal blades. You can see disabled athletes using these to run. We imagine that with sufficiently tough bodies, cybernetics, and armor, a certain amount of landing shock could be absorbed this way (especially with highly-advanced materials). Of course, however, that would not be enough, as you all have correctly pointed out that there is still the "soft bits go splat" concern.

The primary idea, and this was part of the initial concept but you don't really see it in the trailer, is that they are using wingsuits or perhaps even insectoid wings that are partially natural. If you look at some wingsuit flying videos or google "Red Bull Stratos" you will see what I am talking about. It is likely that natural wings or even the wing suit might be shredded on descent from low orbit or ruined on landing. That doesn't matter, as the Cravers don't plan to use them again.

 This way we could have thousands of heavily armed Cravers dropping from low orbit, landing at their target with a fair amount of precision, and rapidly being operational at minimal cost and with only a minimal loss. Though it may require, of course, a quick swap out for a new set of legs...

Seems pretty cool. :) 

It is indeed i never expected that answer but i love it, it sounds pretty craver like having a naturally growth pair of wings you use for landing, like before an invasión the drones get injected with hormones which gaves them the new set of wings and then they doesnt need them anymore i love the idea. 

deepsky wrote:

ssolrac137 wrote:

Soo im a lore adict, and i was wondering if there is any pshysics or science guys in the G2G fórum willing to answer this question for me.

https://youtu.be/-4rgswnjpZg?t=24

How durable are craver drones? i mean how durable you would need to be in order to survive a fall like that, without armor or parachutes or inertial dampeners or anything like that? 

Wait, is there a reason we're assuming they don't have parachutes? If you're dropping into an area with hostile AA (clearly shown in the trailer) you're going to want to pop your chute as low as possible; in the real world these are called HALO jumps. We don't see parachutes in the trailer, but to my eye there's clearly a cut between when the soldier is hit by a missile and when the POV switches to the ground.

Alternatively they could have an antigrav unit in their packs: we see antigrav technology in a number of dialogue screens (when a new government forces a law there's a picture of a politician riding a hovercar, certain successful expedition notifications show cubical robots hovering), and it seems reasonable that Craver drop troops could have units in their packs.

The idea that Cravers are so tough that they just drop from orbital height and hit the ground without otherwise diminishing their speed seems far fetched, even for a sci-fi game. That would make Craver soldiers so tough as to be nearly invincible: if they can be combat ready immediately after hitting the ground at ~100 miles/hour they're going to shrug off grenades and small arms fire like it was nothing. Cravers are clearly strong, but I don't think they're that strong.

Eh, you may want to check the quoted post. 

ssolrac137 wrote:

Soo im a lore adict, and i was wondering if there is any pshysics or science guys in the G2G fórum willing to answer this question for me.

https://youtu.be/-4rgswnjpZg?t=24

How durable are craver drones? i mean how durable you would need to be in order to survive a fall like that, without armor or parachutes or inertial dampeners or anything like that? 

Wait, is there a reason we're assuming they don't have parachutes? If you're dropping into an area with hostile AA (clearly shown in the trailer) you're going to want to pop your chute as low as possible; in the real world these are called HALO jumps. We don't see parachutes in the trailer, but to my eye there's clearly a cut between when the soldier is hit by a missile and when the POV switches to the ground.

Alternatively they could have an antigrav unit in their packs: we see antigrav technology in a number of dialogue screens (when a new government forces a law there's a picture of a politician riding a hovercar, certain successful expedition notifications show cubical robots hovering), and it seems reasonable that Craver drop troops could have units in their packs.

The idea that Cravers are so tough that they just drop from orbital height and hit the ground without otherwise diminishing their speed seems far fetched, even for a sci-fi game. That would make Craver soldiers so tough as to be nearly invincible: if they can be combat ready immediately after hitting the ground at ~100 miles/hour they're going to shrug off grenades and small arms fire like it was nothing. Cravers are clearly strong, but I don't think they're that strong.

So, I messaged Jeff Spock (the lead writer of Amplitude) and this is the response I got.

Slowhands wrote:

The basic idea with the Cravers is that they are cheap to manufacture and more or less disposable. In spite of that, it would of course be wasteful to toss them off of ships by the thousands and have only handfuls that survive.

So when we thought about the Craver invasion militias, we figured that whatever protection or survival gear they had it would be simple, basic, and cheap; something that improved the survival odds but wouldn't cost as much as equipment that would make survival a sure thing.

If you look at the concept art from our first game, you will see that some of them have prosthetic legs that are basically shock absorbing metal blades. You can see disabled athletes using these to run. We imagine that with sufficiently tough bodies, cybernetics, and armor, a certain amount of landing shock could be absorbed this way (especially with highly-advanced materials). Of course, however, that would not be enough, as you all have correctly pointed out that there is still the "soft bits go splat" concern.

The primary idea, and this was part of the initial concept but you don't really see it in the trailer, is that they are using wingsuits or perhaps even insectoid wings that are partially natural. If you look at some wingsuit flying videos or google "Red Bull Stratos" you will see what I am talking about. It is likely that natural wings or even the wing suit might be shredded on descent from low orbit or ruined on landing. That doesn't matter, as the Cravers don't plan to use them again.

 This way we could have thousands of heavily armed Cravers dropping from low orbit, landing at their target with a fair amount of precision, and rapidly being operational at minimal cost and with only a minimal loss. Though it may require, of course, a quick swap out for a new set of legs...

Seems pretty cool. :) 

SirBagel wrote:

MrJade wrote:

As a biologist, there is no way to solve the falling issue. Even if Cravers are made of solid muscle and cybernetics, they would still suffer from the cybernetics poking through the skin, or breaking, or the muscle rupturing on impact. 

You can't just avoid having a skeleton after a certain size, but even if you could the muscle would still rupture at terminal velocity. 

The easiest expansion is either:

1. The trailer isn't meant to be taken literally. 

2. They have an internal grav-chute allowing them to decelerate without visible means. 

But space magic dust!

I mean, if we want to handwave hard enough, then that is an acceptable solution, but there is no way without breaking all known laws of physics for it to happen short of super-magic or some sort of deceleration device implanted inside the Cravers. Which actually makes sense to me.

MrJade wrote:

As a biologist, there is no way to solve the falling issue. Even if Cravers are made of solid muscle and cybernetics, they would still suffer from the cybernetics poking through the skin, or breaking, or the muscle rupturing on impact. 

You can't just avoid having a skeleton after a certain size, but even if you could the muscle would still rupture at terminal velocity. 

The easiest expansion is either:

1. The trailer isn't meant to be taken literally. 

2. They have an internal grav-chute allowing them to decelerate without visible means. 

But space magic dust!

As a biologist, there is no way to solve the falling issue. Even if Cravers are made of solid muscle and cybernetics, they would still suffer from the cybernetics poking through the skin, or breaking, or the muscle rupturing on impact. 

You can't just avoid having a skeleton after a certain size, but even if you could the muscle would still rupture at terminal velocity. 

The easiest expansion is either:

1. The trailer isn't meant to be taken literally. 

2. They have an internal grav-chute allowing them to decelerate without visible means. 

solrac137 wrote:

Zennock wrote:

When you mentioned that the Cravers were able to survive a fall like that, that's actually pretty interesting stuff.

You may have heard the expression, "It's not the speed that kills you, it's suddenly stopping." That's actually very true. 

Lets see what happens when you fall and impact the ground. Now when you slam into the ground, your squishier body parts (bloody vessels, heart, lungs, etc) move much more freely than your harder, more rigid parts (bones). This causes them to slam into the harder parts and essentially damage and destroy themselves. This causes internal bleeding. For the bones themselves, they cannot handle the force that was applied when they impacted the ground and promptly breaks. 

I believe that the reason the Cravers can survive a fall from such a height is because they do not have any blood vessels or bones. They appear as if they're only made out of muscles. 

To explain, lets use a slab of beef and a complicated Lego piece as an example. When we throw both of them to the earth, the Lego piece breaks apart but the meat stays intact. This is quite similar to a human being and a Craver. The physiology behind a human being is very complicated and the body is made up and connected by muscles, bones, sinew which can easily be broken apart with enough force. In comparison, the Craver is made only of muscle (assuming they are) so when a force is applied to them, what is there to break apart? 

Anyway, that's how I believe the Cravers are able to survive such a fall. Also, here's a interesting thing to note. The Cravers depicted in the trailer and the picture given by OP are not actually "drones" but "soldiers". Drones are actually way more different from soldiers in a concept art that one member of G2G provided. I'll provide images if I ever find it again.

This is an interesting idea, maybe the functions performed by bones and other organs are done by cybernetics, this is consistent with one of the rewards of the craver quest which is a cybernetic stomacht and the end of the craver questline after deciding to join the endless mentions that every craver is having all of the parts of their organic bodies replaced with cybernetics. 

Now that's adds even more weight to the theory! That seems really plausible but I guess the final explanation depends on the devs. 

Zennock wrote:

When you mentioned that the Cravers were able to survive a fall like that, that's actually pretty interesting stuff.

You may have heard the expression, "It's not the speed that kills you, it's suddenly stopping." That's actually very true. 

Lets see what happens when you fall and impact the ground. Now when you slam into the ground, your squishier body parts (bloody vessels, heart, lungs, etc) move much more freely than your harder, more rigid parts (bones). This causes them to slam into the harder parts and essentially damage and destroy themselves. This causes internal bleeding. For the bones themselves, they cannot handle the force that was applied when they impacted the ground and promptly breaks. 

I believe that the reason the Cravers can survive a fall from such a height is because they do not have any blood vessels or bones. They appear as if they're only made out of muscles. 

To explain, lets use a slab of beef and a complicated Lego piece as an example. When we throw both of them to the earth, the Lego piece breaks apart but the meat stays intact. This is quite similar to a human being and a Craver. The physiology behind a human being is very complicated and the body is made up and connected by muscles, bones, sinew which can easily be broken apart with enough force. In comparison, the Craver is made only of muscle (assuming they are) so when a force is applied to them, what is there to break apart? 

Anyway, that's how I believe the Cravers are able to survive such a fall. Also, here's a interesting thing to note. The Cravers depicted in the trailer and the picture given by OP are not actually "drones" but "soldiers". Drones are actually way more different from soldiers in a concept art that one member of G2G provided. I'll provide images if I ever find it again.

This is an interesting idea, maybe the functions performed by bones and other organs are done by cybernetics, this is consistent with one of the rewards of the craver quest which is a cybernetic stomacht and the end of the craver questline after deciding to join the endless mentions that every craver is having all of the parts of their organic bodies replaced with cybernetics. 

When you mentioned that the Cravers were able to survive a fall like that, that's actually pretty interesting stuff.

You may have heard the expression, "It's not the speed that kills you, it's suddenly stopping." That's actually very true. 

Lets see what happens when you fall and impact the ground. Now when you slam into the ground, your squishier body parts (bloody vessels, heart, lungs, etc) move much more freely than your harder, more rigid parts (bones). This causes them to slam into the harder parts and essentially damage and destroy themselves. This causes internal bleeding. For the bones themselves, they cannot handle the force that was applied when they impacted the ground and promptly breaks. 

I believe that the reason the Cravers can survive a fall from such a height is because they do not have any blood vessels or bones. They appear as if they're only made out of muscles. 

To explain, lets use a slab of beef and a complicated Lego piece as an example. When we throw both of them to the earth, the Lego piece breaks apart but the meat stays intact. This is quite similar to a human being and a Craver. The physiology behind a human being is very complicated and the body is made up and connected by muscles, bones, sinew which can easily be broken apart with enough force. In comparison, the Craver is made only of muscle (assuming they are) so when a force is applied to them, what is there to break apart? 

Anyway, that's how I believe the Cravers are able to survive such a fall. Also, here's a interesting thing to note. The Cravers depicted in the trailer and the picture given by OP are not actually "drones" but "soldiers". Drones are actually way more different from soldiers in a concept art that one member of G2G provided. I'll provide images if I ever find it again.

Can't say for sure if those abilities are biological or cybernetic, because with technology as advanced as the Endless possessed, such minor feats as surviving a drop from high altitude are trivial.

Probably varies depending on where their cybernetics come from. The ones who survived the bombing of Husk were outfitted by the Endless so of course their strength dwarfs anything from this age, while modern Cravers have to use slapdash prosthetics that are on par with everyone else's at best!