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Fleet retreat is creating one of the most frustrating experiences I've had so far

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7 years ago
Jun 3, 2017, 6:59:04 PM

I'm attacking someone and everytime they retreat from battle the following happens:


1) Their medium ships only lose a small amount of life (from 6.4k to 4.2k)


2) Their ships go towards my systems or systems I've recently captured, bypassing the blockade instead of actually retreating back to their base.


They then proceed to attack those systems behind the blockade they'd never normally been able to reach.


In those 2-3 turns they have regenerated a LOT of that hitpoint.


Once I send my ships back, they re-retreat and rinse-and-repeat


3) Other times I get a yoyo of: retreat-heal-return retreat-heal-return retreat-heal-return retreat-heal-return retreat-heal-return, not allowing a resolution of battle.



Suggestion:


A retreat should set the fleet to the nearest friendly system, it should then no longer by selectable at least until it has reached that system, if not more so (a la penalty for dead heroes of 20turns to regenerate).

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jun 3, 2017, 7:03:21 PM

The blockade doesn't block their way, just make them STAY there the turn they reach without option to move (Once they reach that system they get blocked and can't move UNTIL the next turn), If that system is yours normally they attack it because well, they will have to stay there anyway because your blockade.


The solution is have more than 1 fleet, you can wait them in their way when they retreat so you can finish them off. normally with 1 fleet you can't get rid entirely of the enemy fleet (Because retreats, and such things). In this game with 1 big fleet you obtain nothing, because you let open many ways, and while you chase someone another enemy fleet will reach your systems etc...

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7 years ago
Jun 3, 2017, 7:10:10 PM

The blockade doesn't block their way, just make them STAY there the turn they reach without option to move

Yes, but the point is, I should have 1 turn to attack the fleets with my fleet if I blockade their path.


What actually happens is that I blockade, their ships come, I attack, and they RETREAT away from their home into the back ranks of my system. So in effect the blockade does nothing. The retreat system is busting the design elements of the game as currently implemented.


In this game with 1 big fleet you obtain nothing, because you let open many ways, and while you chase someone another enemy fleet will reach your systems etc...


That's fine, thats something I would normally have to deal with. However you are making a point that is not relevant. They are not going AROUND my ships to the back using gurella warfare. It's the fact that the retreat feature is broken currently, they are retreating, through the blockade. It's not even intentional by the AI, it comes to attack my fleet, then retreats and suddenly their ships randomly go to my system and it continues to harass.


Imagine in a real war: Poland attacks east German front, they are losing so they retreat MORE FORWARD into the West German region???????? Then they go ahead and kill the civilian and factories.


That's not how retreat works, if you're retreating you should retreat BACK to the safest place.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jun 3, 2017, 7:20:14 PM

Then the only problem, that I have too is that I don't know how the retreat works and how the AI decides what path to use. That happens with our ships too that we put retreat and the path is or almost looks like It is random. 


The other thing about that when they retreat they can move even in a blockade system that is works as intended because if they can't retreat then why put the action retreat? I mean, everytime someone enter a blockade system if they can't scape it is a death sentence. The only problem as you said is that they go to the path to your other system, but again, what if that is a ultimate strategy? xD just put another fleet there and problem done (As I said, the problem is the randomess of the retreat path)

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7 years ago
Jun 3, 2017, 9:27:01 PM

I think in general, retreat paths should never take you towards a system with hostile influence. If you're surrounded on all sides with hostile systems, you should be forced to either make a last stand or be forced to take a path off of any star lane.


The exception of course being the Vodyani. It'd be too easy to create traps with arks if this became a mechanic.


(I think ideally you should be allowed to pick the retreat direction for the sake of being able to optimally retain your larger strategy)

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7 years ago
Jun 6, 2017, 1:19:48 AM

Well, at first let me tell you that I ran into similiar problems regarding retreat.



Imagine in a real war: Poland attacks east German front, they are losing so they retreat MORE FORWARD into the West German region???????? Then they go ahead and kill the civilian and factories.


That's not how retreat works, if you're retreating you should retreat BACK to the safest place.


And that's why I have backup fleets behind. They're there to replenish the main fleets if necessary. And they're weaker than the main fleets. So, the AI is less likely to retreat again. If they retreat again, there's a chance that they retreat back to the main fleet. I call that playing ping pong with them. If they retreat further into my space, my backup fleets can chase them down while the main fleet will still be unaffected. 


I think that's a good way to play around this mechanic. Anyway, I agree with you. The retreat mechanic could see some work. Perhaps some support modules to hinder them from fleeing.

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7 years ago
Jun 6, 2017, 1:47:55 AM
Nasarog wrote:

The more things change, the more they stay the same.


Dont know what that is supposed to mean, but the way retreat works now doesnt make a single bit of sense.


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7 years ago
Jun 6, 2017, 1:11:41 PM

Actually I do want to say that it wasn't too uncommon in the old days for a retreating and broken army to immediately dissolve into disorganized raiding of the countryside. That HAS been a thorn in the side of many a military leader. Whether that's the intended design in this game or not I can't say.

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7 years ago
Jun 6, 2017, 3:29:45 PM

Retreat is defined as:


  • withdraw from enemy forces as a result of their superior power
  • an act of moving back


One does not retreat THROUGH an enemy blockade.

One can retreat and withdraw from battle in a direction that they did not come from *if* they actually engaged in battle.


+=========+==========+==========+==========+==========+==========+==========+==========+


Short story: The retreat mechanic needs to be changed to not allow retreating through a blockade.


+=========+==========+==========+==========+==========+==========+==========+==========+

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jun 6, 2017, 3:55:44 PM

Hold on a second. I frequently have to retreat with little ships. Isn't it already supposed to force us to retreat into either A. Unknown territory or B. Our own territory? I've never had the option to retreat into enemy territory without being told it would destroy my ships due to lack of escape routes.


So it sounds to me like retreats aren't broken inherently, they're not working as intended for AI, who get to retreat where they're not supposed to.

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7 years ago
Jun 6, 2017, 6:44:20 PM

Retreat is not balanced well. It is almost impossible to get experience for heroes assigned to fleets. Even overpowered fleet can't destroy a single small ship.

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7 years ago
Jun 12, 2017, 7:12:02 AM

One way I found to overcome this is what I call the "ping-pong" (sorry if looses its sense in english) tactic. When I spot the retreating path I put fleets like in this picture:



The cian Riftborn are retreating between Taurus and Nos always followiung the red line. What I do is put a fleet on each side. This way they retreat, loose great portion of health and when arrive at the end of the lane find my other fleet waiting to fight damaged ships, or force a retreat, killing ships anyway.

This is tedious, but when you enter the "rinse and repeat" mechanics you have mentioned, allows you to get rid of this fleets.

Have in mind that this only works well if all fleets are following same retreat path (shich actually seems they're doing).


Hope they'll fix this in next path (sorry had no time to try 1.0.11 branch yet and not sure about this status in that preview).

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