Logo Platform
logo amplifiers simplified

Lumeris has been extremely aggressive in all my games, I'm confused.

Reply
Copied to clipboard!
7 years ago
Jun 14, 2017, 4:18:53 PM

Here's the latest scenario, but it's been repeated multiple times. 


I'm playing Cravers on Endless difficulty, sparse resources, young galaxy, fast speed. I settle three outposts and leave the Lumeris at least 3 systems to expand (we share the same constellation) while I build up my infrastructure. 


They don't colonize a single system. I have about 4 Attack Ships, they declare war on me around turn 15 and come at me with 6 attack ships. 


I can build attack ships in one turn on my capital and 1-2 turns in my first colony. They take out an outpost before I can really react (whatever). 


They then procede to get absolutely buttfucked by me around turn 26. I have their capital under siege and 28 ships at this point. They have four. They are sieging a colony and are about to experience the pain of a dozen ships dropped on their ass. I'm a bit slow on the response because I don't have Warp Drives yet. 



Now here's the strange thing. This isn't the first time this has happened to me. This is like the third. The Lumeris don't expand to easy, good locations, have a handful (or a single) system, and are uber-aggressive towards an enemy that can outproduce relentlessly. 


Does the AI not consider enemy production capacity? What the hell is up with these guys? Are they not supposed to be pacifists? 

0Send private message
7 years ago
Jun 14, 2017, 4:29:19 PM

It might be a Craver thing though... there's no point to play a Pacifist if your next door neighbor is incapable of engaging in meaningful Diplomacy.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Jun 14, 2017, 4:32:45 PM

That's a fair point, but the previous time this happened I was playing as unfallen and was quite peaceful, had a treaty and even a trade agreement going. They sneak attack me, take a system, and then procede to get rolled over in half a dozen turns. 


Plus, they even complimented me for being peaceful a few turns before attacking me. 


That said, even if there's no diplomacy to engage in, you'd figure building up an industrial base and more than six ships would be a priority. 

0Send private message
7 years ago
Jun 14, 2017, 7:15:50 PM
Aea wrote:

That's a fair point, but the previous time this happened I was playing as unfallen and was quite peaceful, had a treaty and even a trade agreement going. They sneak attack me, take a system, and then procede to get rolled over in half a dozen turns. 


Plus, they even complimented me for being peaceful a few turns before attacking me. 


That said, even if there's no diplomacy to engage in, you'd figure building up an industrial base and more than six ships would be a priority. 

What can I say... they lie better than they fight!

0Send private message
7 years ago
Jun 14, 2017, 7:40:09 PM

I've had similar experiences playing any other faction as well when encountering Lumeris AI. I'm not 100% sure, but what I think is happening is that Lumeris have a higher tendency to go to Sneaky opinion modifier earlier than any other AI considering they're supposed to be ruthless opportunists. Likewise I've never seen them issue tribute or diplomatic pressure demands, they just opt to attack ASAP. 


If any other faction demands tribute due to you being weaker and you comply (which is easy to do due to how tiny their demands usually are), they'll often get Happy opinion modifier and you can ask for peace the same turn, which they'll gladly accept and turn them into Cordial status for the rest of the game. Cravers are only exception due to their Eternal War trait, but even they seem to be easier to stave off with tribute than the Lumeris. I've never found Lumeris issuing tribute demands and they'll attack you very often unless you negotiate a peace treaty very early on and keep a good fleet at hand or they're busy fighting someone else.


Non-Lumeris AI aggressiveness on higher difficulties needs to be amped up in general. Endless difficulty Cravers who could easily destroy me and capture all my systems should not be happy to accept truce if I give them 20 Antimatter, 20 Adamantian and 30 Titanium on the first turn of the war.


EDIT: Yeah tried out a new Horatio game and it seems 100% sure neighboring Lumeris AI is currently the most aggressive one in the game. Turn 32 on Endless difficulty and they declared war on me and have a whopping two ships (one of them heavily damaged) sitting on one of my colonies. In comparison UE asked for tribute a few turns ago and stayed away for a measly amount of 150 Dust.


SAVE FILE

Lumeris are crazy.zip

Updated 7 years ago.
0Send private message
7 years ago
Jun 14, 2017, 9:06:23 PM

+1, had the same issue with Lumeris on a game.

If you don't have a powerful enough fleet they will attack you, but they don't see to have the gas to keep on going. Like Aea, I was able to quickly set up a fleet and win the war.


Maybe the ratio of how powerful your fleet is/how powerful theirs is should be adjusted so they are less likely to attack because they need a bigger fleet to trigger sneaky wars.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Jun 14, 2017, 9:29:03 PM

Not a Lumeris problem specifically, but I find it pretty funny how often the AI tells me "we're stronger than you" only to get utterly wrecked the moment they try to invade.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Jun 14, 2017, 11:21:10 PM

So I guess this means a few possible things are happening.


1) The AI has difficulty assessing its own war readiness before declaring war.


2) The AI doesn't prep for war by specifically researching weapon and defense techs so as to have an edge on the opponent.


3) The AI doesn't wait to build up a big enough fleet before declaring war.


If the AI is still bad at war on harder difficulties this is problematic because they supposedly have huge bonuses to FIDSI then. 

0Send private message
7 years ago
Jun 16, 2017, 1:18:41 PM
Slashman wrote:

So I guess this means a few possible things are happening.


1) The AI has difficulty assessing its own war readiness before declaring war.


2) The AI doesn't prep for war by specifically researching weapon and defense techs so as to have an edge on the opponent.


3) The AI doesn't wait to build up a big enough fleet before declaring war.


If the AI is still bad at war on harder difficulties this is problematic because they supposedly have huge bonuses to FIDSI then. 

All of the above.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Jun 16, 2017, 1:43:11 PM

In  4 of my 5 recent games (all done on Endless difficullty) the AI followed next pattern: after we've met i colonize system not farm from it, it gets pissed, goes from wary to agressive and declares war on me. 1 game i colonized in different direction and my neightbour even agreed to peace status, but another AI being wormhole away declared war on me becouse of influence border friction.


As cravers i simply steamrolled lumeris by turn 40 (stardart speed), as unfallen i rolled over UE (they're not far away from cravers in terms of early game production due to insane population growth), as lumeris i cleared riftborn by turn 70 and fun part was that Ai went conquering far away system instead of the one i settled next to him so my homeworld fleet protected my system and the one i've build at their doorsteps simply cleared all their core colonies. 


The only game that really kept me on my toes was sophons against vodyani becouse of combination of how weak sophons are early game and vodyani bullying me right from the start. Still i ceased enemies existence by turn 100.


Atm AI:

- is too nearvous about everything (tresspassing, colonies etc.);

- AI is coded in a simple patern so it never evalutes enemy - it just goes to war;

- AI can't handle warfare, it's just too bad at it.

 

0Send private message
7 years ago
Jun 16, 2017, 7:49:05 PM

I wonder how the AI bonuses compare to ES1. In that game on endless it often seemed like I was defending against a constant barrage of enemy fleets. It doesn't seem to happen in this one, not until the late game anyway. Did someone leave a zero off a bonus somewhere?

0Send private message
7 years ago
Jun 17, 2017, 3:00:15 AM

If I don't aggressively expand, mid-game AI can be quite a challenge. So I don't think that's the issue. I think it compares relatively strength without looking at production capacity. 


I've certainly had the AI make other dumb moves mid-game though, including one case where the Riftborne attacked me after I ate the Cravers. Good idea, I was at my weakest. The problem is they didn't build the fleet to match me. Endless Difficulty. 

0Send private message
?

Click here to login

Reply
Comment