Hey guys!

So, I've been playing some Vodyani and what's been gnawling at my  curiosity is how exactly do the Vodyani "reproduce", and why are the  lore and gameplay contradicting each other? So, according to both the  Vodyani Vision video and the story of Varb St. Zouieina, the "convert"  must enter a pool of energy/essence and then their consciousness and  life force are transferred to the Cloth and they are now truly Vodyani.  But according to Holy Proliferation's blurb, they simply bathe the Cloth  in essence when enough is gathered, implying that with enough essence  the Vodyani can literally generate consciousness rather than transfer  consciousness. So, which one is true? Indeed in the game no sacrifice or  conversion of population is required to generate Vodyani, so I assume  that somehow miraculously they can generate new life with essence, but  I'm still confused. Wouldn't it make more sense if they had technology  similar to Horatio's where they could turn a member of a minor faction  into their own race, with the cost of essence?

I really love the  game so far and the plethora of texts and quests in the game just lean  so heavily on RPG, I'm really loving it and I'm surprised to see such a  well fleshed-out world in a 4x game. I just have so many lore questions,  but since I'm trying out the Vodyani now I'm a bit confused about how  they actually generate/convert population.

They do convert other races into Vodyani's, lore-wise if not in-game.

I don't think they can generate conciousness by amassing essence, I've seen nothing so far to indicate that.

What MidnightTea said, more or less. Essence is the stuff of souls for the Vodyani, a primordial soup of consciousness and life force which can be given form and function as a new Cloth. So to be drained of Essence is to become the raw stuff of Vodyani souls, potentially surviving to the point of Ascension into what the Vodyani consider a perfect and divine form- theirs.

Hi All,

Thanks for the interesting discussion!

To clarify things, I'll need to give you a bit of the history of the Vodyani. Generations ago, the Vodyani species were close to destruction due to their over-industrialization of their home planet. Only the discovery of technology discovered from the ruins of Virtual Endless allowed them to escape their fate, as they began a great program of "uplifting" themselves into their emblematic Holy Cloths. Essentially, individual consciousnesses could be "harvested" from living bodies, whereupon they could then be uplifted into the suits. Over a relatively short period, the powerful figures of Vodyani society moved over to their suited forms and established the Church of the Virtual Saints. Freed from the vulnerabilities of the flesh, only requiring Dust to function, the Vodyanis broke away from their home planet, leaving behind the dying survivors of their former race.

So, in making this change to a semi-incorporeal form, the Vodyani lost the ability to increase their numbers. If they were to grow as a civilization, they would need to harvest more consciousnesses to transfer to their constructed Holy Cloths. Thus a central tenet of their faith was born--the need to voyage across the stars and harvest Essence from those weaker than themselves. In order to maintain their identity in these circumstances, the Vodyani use two main tools. First, when they harvest consciousnesses (that kill the body), before it is uplifted, they give the consciousness a period of time in which its individualism and memories are weakened. Second, the doctrine of the Church of the Virtual Saints is enforced with great authority, so that new Vodyani are conditioned to serve the same aims as the rest of the society.

Some Vodyani go even further--rather than allowing a fresh consciousness to be uplifted into an empty suit, they integrate the soul into themselves, letting it become a lesser part of their psyche. This is considered a sin in Virtual Saints theology (as it runs counter to the notion of being fruitful), but many of the most powerful figures in the society are thought to indulge the practice as it is not only a powerful emotional experience, but it can also strengthen their character or capabilities in diverse ways.

Whoa, it's really cool how close I was able to get with my theory. Thanks for the update on that, StoryEngine!  Says a lot that I was able to make as many connections as I could with what was there in the game.  It's interesting the Vodyani really do strongly push the idea of multiplying because I certainly had that experience in the game mechanics itself:  towards the middle-late part of a campaign I'd have so many ark ship colonies that I'd need to enact that religious law that sets approval to a fixed rating.

One thing I find interesting is that the Vodyani seem to not entirely work by force. It seems some of them really do preach to minor civilizations and try to earnestly convince them to surrender their Essence. This is implied in both some of their technology descriptions and in some of their unique diplomatic options. And while it might sound like a hard sell -- "join us and you might sorta die for a bit but then awaken later" -- the very nature of religion is that it appeals to those who have nothing. I also know enough people, esp. older folks and trans folk, who aren't as attached to their physical forms and would leap at the chance to have "cloth" that better suited their identities.  (or indeed, transcend physical boundaries entirely)

UndeadPuppy wrote:

What is the view on VIrtual Saints with Endless souls in their suits? Are they commiting the highest kind of blasphemy by absorbing their gods, or are they touched by the divine and elevated in status (since technically they became, partially if not fully, what the Vodyani worship)?

I think they're supposed to be ranging between questionable and holy saints in the eyes of the Church. All the Vodyani heroes' naming theme follows original name - St - Virtual Endless name.

- Enav St Lyeaor

- Varb St Zouieina

- Klev St Seiotia

- Daro St Taiage

According to wiki, the reason why they range into questionable territory as well is probably because the Church also simultaneously lost control of their suits and the supposed Saints are pariahs in a species where utmost loyalty to the Church is expected above all else, not to mention the hero descriptions mention some outright question their own beliefs and in gameplay they're basically mercenaries for hire.

Enav's description:

Corroboration is difficult, however, as the Church has lost control of Enav's Cloth and of Enav himself. Though Enav continues to seek, explore, and follow  orders, the lack of direct control over his suit has made the Hierarchs  unsure as to whether he should be punished. Others argue that he has  been touched by the gods, and it is no longer the role of the Church to  question his actions. Others yet wonder whether Enav is still in there, and whether the being called "Enav St Lyeaor" should rather simply be called "Lyeaor"...

hera35 wrote:

UndeadPuppy wrote:

What is the view on VIrtual Saints with Endless souls in their suits? Are they commiting the highest kind of blasphemy by absorbing their gods, or are they touched by the divine and elevated in status (since technically they became, partially if not fully, what the Vodyani worship)?

I think they're supposed to be ranging between questionable and holy saints in the eyes of the Church. All the Vodyani heroes' naming theme follows original name - St - Virtual Endless name.

- Enav St Lyeaor

- Varb St Zouieina

- Klev St Seiotia

- Daro St Taiage

According to wiki, the reason why they range into questionable territory as well is probably because the Church also simultaneously lost control of their suits and the supposed Saints are pariahs in a species where utmost loyalty to the Church is expected above all else, not to mention the hero descriptions mention some outright question their own beliefs and in gameplay they're basically mercenaries for hire.

Enav's description:

Corroboration is difficult, however, as the Church has lost control of Enav's Cloth and of Enav himself. Though Enav continues to seek, explore, and follow  orders, the lack of direct control over his suit has made the Hierarchs  unsure as to whether he should be punished. Others argue that he has  been touched by the gods, and it is no longer the role of the Church to  question his actions. Others yet wonder whether Enav is still in there, and whether the being called "Enav St Lyeaor" should rather simply be called "Lyeaor"...

I guess the church doesn't really know how to act on these individuals. I wonder if the Vodyani citizens are aware of the "rogue" status of these individuals or not.

I would assume the church covered it up.

dobyk wrote:

)StoryEngine wrote:

Hi All,

Thanks for the interesting discussion!

To clarify things, I'll need to give you a bit of the history of the Vodyani. Generations ago, the Vodyani species were close to destruction due to their over-industrialization of their home planet. Only the discovery of technology discovered from the ruins of Virtual Endless allowed them to escape their fate, as they began a great program of "uplifting" themselves into their emblematic Holy Cloths. Essentially, individual consciousnesses could be "harvested" from living bodies, whereupon they could then be uplifted into the suits. Over a relatively short period, the powerful figures of Vodyani society moved over to their suited forms and established the Church of the Virtual Saints. Freed from the vulnerabilities of the flesh, only requiring Dust to function, the Vodyanis broke away from their home planet, leaving behind the dying survivors of their former race.

So, in making this change to a semi-incorporeal form, the Vodyani lost the ability to increase their numbers. If they were to grow as a civilization, they would need to harvest more consciousnesses to transfer to their constructed Holy Cloths. Thus a central tenet of their faith was born--the need to voyage across the stars and harvest Essence from those weaker than themselves. In order to maintain their identity in these circumstances, the Vodyani use two main tools. First, when they harvest consciousnesses (that kill the body), before it is uplifted, they give the consciousness a period of time in which its individualism and memories are weakened. Second, the doctrine of the Church of the Virtual Saints is enforced with great authority, so that new Vodyani are conditioned to serve the same aims as the rest of the society.

Some Vodyani go even further--rather than allowing a fresh consciousness to be uplifted into an empty suit, they integrate the soul into themselves, letting it become a lesser part of their psyche. This is considered a sin in Virtual Saints theology (as it runs counter to the notion of being fruitful), but many of the most powerful figures in the society are thought to indulge the practice as it is not only a powerful emotional experience, but it can also strengthen their character or capabilities in diverse ways.\

Thank you so much for the elaborate answer! From what I understand, MidnightTea was actually quite close to nailing the lore down. So it is a result of draining (rather than what we saw in the Vodyani vision video), but it is much more deliberate in that the Vodyani can choose whose consciousness to fully drain. So a person of strong character and resilient mind would be fully drained of essence and their mind, then these would circulate with the essence within the Ark until the consciousness is sufficiently weakened. Then the Cloth is submerged into a pool of essence where the mind is, thus uploading it into the suit and creating Vodyani. Is that correct? I'm also intrigued to find out that only some Vodyani were elevated, leaving the rest of their race to die ot Tchimony. Interesting.

Also, you mentioned the Vodyani only require Dust to function. So is Dust required for maintenance of the Cloth, while essence for feeding the lifeforce-mind within?

Thanks so much for commenting here StoryEngine and taking a look at the question!

Salvation is reserved only for the righteous and devout. I suspect that anyone who had objections to being harvested and stuffed into a mechanical suit forever was deemed unworthy.