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Why I can't enjoy ES2 as much as I want

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7 years ago
Jun 29, 2017, 4:26:31 PM

I would like to focus primarily on negative points but it does not mean that the game is bad. There are many good things about it but I don’t want to write a review. Anything that I do not mention I generally find extremely good, such as asymmetric factions. Keep in mind that I can be wrong on every single point that I make but it does not change what I felt. Most people, I think, are not going to browse forums or read up guides. I have currently put around 25 hours into the game (completed 2 playthroughs and have 3 pending) and I will put in more time to see whether I am missing something. As for me, I am a big fan of 4X strategies and particularly of Endless Space 1 in which I easily spent countless hours over all these years.

 

My first point is that in ES2 I feel like I have little control over progression. There is almost nothing I can do in the early game due to the removal of industry conversion, planetary specialisation and buyout system from the basic options. As a result, I just sit there queuing up all the improvements I have available and wait until I get more developed. Moreover, I noticed that many system improvements are extremely specific (such as on hot, on sterile etc.) which means that 1) the game is very luck dependent and 2) improvements usually do not have a significant impact. It also doesn’t help that I sometimes have no idea what affects certain variables, such as dust production or trade companies. Often, I feel like my dust production is a random number every turn.

 

While quests are great in giving you a sense of direction and providing more lore to factions, I find that they can be unfair. In my 2 playthroughs as Horatio I was stuck on a certain stage in the main quest chain where I had to colonise a system in the middle of nowhere, which was already owned by someone.

 

I feel like research took a big hit. Tech trees are now filled with uninspiring technologies since we now have to research basics (planetary specialisation etc.) in addition to the increased number of planet types and technologies required for them and technology specificity which I just mentioned. Moreover, I feel like tech trees are also poorly organised: Why is essential planetary food specialisation in stage 3? Why do we need to research useless improvements in order to get to weapons? Why is colonisation of a toxic planet in the politics tree? It also doesn’t help that we cannot queue technologies in the next technological stage even if we will achieve it with current research. Finally, while I see the point of technological stages, it does not work well when I want a targeted research.

 

I really like the quick pace in ES1 which I can set. In ES2, however, even with the fastest setting it takes ages to get things done. In one of my playthroughs, it took 14 turns to colonise another planet in my home system, which resulted in stagnation and waste of resources. And I couldn’t do anything about it because improvements are specific and I have no way to specialise planets. This is amplified by the fact that turns take 3 times longer to complete on my machine (which is not very powerful sure) than in ES1.

 

I adored the combat system in ES1 but I think that ES2’s system is way too hands off. Playing mind games was extremely fun with tactic cards and it was also more engaging as we had to observe battles in order to choose the right course of action in every phase. It also had more control with targeting options. The tactics themselves are very generic in ES2 and usually there is no ambiguity, it is always the case that 1 is better than the rest.

 

Lastly, even though ES2 has nice UI and graphics I still find ES1 more attractive visually. Anomalies are profound in the planet visualisation, while some in ES2 are barely noticeable. Battles too look better in ES1 due to larger explosions, greater number of projectiles fired and effects of tactic cards (just look at gravity well).

 

Like I said, I am a big fan of Endless Space series but I cannot get into ES2 as much as I did with ES1. I am also not claiming certainty about what I said, I came here asking for your help in case I miss something important. Maybe those are relevant points, maybe I am a noob. What do you think guys?


GG

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7 years ago
Jun 30, 2017, 7:23:23 PM

Spend some more time with different races and research the appriopriate technologies for the planets you are given in the luck of the draw.  The tree is quite well organized, the only real point I agree with you on is the battles are somewhat un-intuitive until the later stages when you are using resource based weapons, and play another race to get a different experience.  In ES1 the races playstyle were all very close to the same.  In ES2 try playing the cravers, slave drivers, if you don't keep your empire moving you will stagnate and die (IE your planets get depleted FAST however you've got the most production in the game) or turtle as the sophons and blow everybody up with advanced ships as you burn through the tech tree.  Play the riftborn, or heck make a custom faction, but open yourself up.  Horatio is great, but this games gems come in how you play the multitude of races, because they are all drastically different in play styles.  Like the Voydan, they can literally migrate there whole empire to a different section of the map if so desired.  This game makes more sense the more you play it.  The menus are intuitive and the tooltips help quite a bit.  BTW It also helps not to build improvements that don't have a effect on the system, heck if you don't have any sterile planets don't research any sterile improvements, itll help the effeciency and quality of your game.  But do give it a go as another race, and see how it feels, Lumens, Sophons, or Riftborn would be a good go judgeing by the information you gave in your review?


Anyways, just pointing out you've got to give it a chance longer than 3 playthroughs, this game has so much depth and stradegy behind every desicion, even if the battles are a play this card go and watch pretty visuals.  Try to focus your research on what the galactic luck draw has given you, and move your population around to planets that best suite there specialities.  That will help keep everyone happy and production will begin to make more sense.  

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7 years ago
Jun 30, 2017, 8:41:02 PM

I agree with this:
- Tech tree is too unlogical because of many techs fall in category they clearly not belong too (colonizing Toxic in politics group as mentioned in first post which is clearly 'science tech' or ships hulls there again which is logicaly 'military tech')
- Game is too slow in terms of turns needed to finish it even on 'fast' mode in 'tiny' galaxy.


Another thing which I don't like is imposibility to terramorph between barren-lava and revers-terramorphing.


Everything else is good for me (except several nasty bugs which made game almost unplayable for me). The idea to make bigger guns on bigger ships is awesome.


About lack of targeting control and generic tactics - I think it would be nice to add this options as fleet-focused heroes skills so if your fleet has such commander you could use them either amongst the other tactics cards or as separate deck and possibility to choose two cards (one from each deck) before battle.

Updated 7 years ago.
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7 years ago
Jul 5, 2017, 7:31:17 AM

I would also like to point out that you're playing what is probably the weakest race in ES2 so anything bad is going to feel 10x worse. I would definitely, definitely try out different races, Lumeris and Cravers are both fun races that keep up the pace....

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7 years ago
Jul 5, 2017, 7:29:04 PM

Well it is a different game, not a patch to an old game, there's ought to be difference and you ought not to like it all.


I am 176 hours in ES2 (catching up to 182 hours in ES1) and well I am bummed out now and waiting for a patch or two to change things up a bit for me to rediscover. Feeling bored a bit.


1st point, switch to fast speed.

Game was always luck dependent, remember when out of 8 players 2 got pirates to siege their home and possibly kill their colony ship? That's the right ES1 stuff. I mean that's prevalent. And basic upgrades and especiall food upgrades largely ignore this planet related nonsense. And if you do not have planets said upgrades benefits, how about not researching it in the first place?

Are you saying that in ES1 you could calculate your trade route income yourself? Cause I sure as hell could not.


Quests - unnecesary, but yeah, those colonize a system things suck, try to avoid it by learning the questline and make different choices.


Food spec is not essential. (I hate specs, silly little buttons I have to click planets for to obtain tiny bonus)

However the research tree could always use some reorganizing.

Toxic planet is dust heavy planet, I guess they decided to pair it up with politics, as they paired lava into industry tree to make it a possibility for you to progress to a higher stage while still essentially getting what you want.

Yup, you can't queue them, but there is research surplus, so it becomes irrelevant.

Tech stages work as intended, for targeted research having scientific law creates the advantage you seek.


Combat is again "different", cards still have potential "counters" but now are more reliant on the fleet design and the whole range play.


Graphics are nicer, yes, but I myself would appreciate something that would give me performance light 2D experience. I rarely watch combat, although there is a bit more to see in ES2 as relating to the fleet movements and all that messed up and unexplained logic of lanes and ranges, it basically bring 0 value in ES2 as you can no longer interfere.


Play more, get to know the game better, then readjust your views or don't.

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