Logo Platform
logo amplifiers simplified

Instant upgrade of ships makes the game too easy?

Reply
Copied to clipboard!
7 years ago
Sep 17, 2017, 4:07:09 PM

Here is the scenario I am getting pertically against the A.I who never does the same.The vast majoriry only play vs the A.I


See's the A.I fleets coming.Looks at their ships.Changes every ship in the fleet to counter with armor,shields,ect on that turn.Wins a battle I should have lost.



I really think there should be timer for uprades of at least 4 turns.The game is hard enough for the A.I as it is.


0Send private message
7 years ago
Sep 17, 2017, 4:19:56 PM

I would not mind this at all, it also gives an incentive for you to make more balanced specs and compositions if you aren't sure what enemy you're up against.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Sep 17, 2017, 5:46:55 PM
Aitarus wrote:

I would not mind this at all, it also gives an incentive for you to make more balanced specs and compositions if you aren't sure what enemy you're up against.

In theory I agree but I wonder if this would turn into more of a malus for the AI than a help. The devs would need to weigh in, but theoretically, the advanced view of a fleet you see coming can vary in terms of turns. Right now, the AI should absolutely be adjusting its designs to offset the player's own regardless of if there is a timer. If they aren't, then there is a problem that a timer won't fix.


Also, humans can easily exploit a system like that as well. It takes one ship to blockade a system. If you know the routes into your own empire, one scout at each node is all it takes to buy you time to refit your fleet by the time the AI gets there.



0Send private message
7 years ago
Sep 17, 2017, 6:00:11 PM

I've found that the AI tends to swap their fleets quite often and I'd advocate, depending on difficulty perhaps, that they should remain able to access instant upgrade. I've sometimes been caught off guard where I haven't noticed and it's led to them stealing a win and that is worth keeping.


For players on the other hand, I think having a couple turns or so delay or as someone in another thread suggested reducing the amount of immediately available sensor readout on enemy specs, would add a bit more depth to the decision making.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Sep 18, 2017, 3:03:34 AM

I dislike the idea of giving the AI an advantage that a human doesn't have apart from the normal bonuses that the game allows at higher difficulty levels. So I'd prefer the idea of limited sensor info for all parties unless you have a ship in the same orbit as the enemy fleet.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Sep 18, 2017, 3:27:57 AM

What if the timer for Tactics deck creation was the same timer for making a new round of ship designs? Pick cards, design ships, hit OK, and your military is locked in for the next ten or so turns.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Sep 18, 2017, 4:01:55 AM
IceGremlin wrote:

What if the timer for Tactics deck creation was the same timer for making a new round of ship designs? Pick cards, design ships, hit OK, and your military is locked in for the next ten or so turns.

Possibly. Just keeping in mind that the larger the scope of the suggested change, the less likely the devs are to jump on it unless it gets extensive testing. So maybe in a G2G balance mod would be the best place to see how it works out.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Oct 1, 2017, 6:31:26 AM

I would much rather there be less info displayed when you hover enemy fleets. It's a little odd to think that you can just tell the exact firepower and defenses of a ship with long-range system scanners.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Oct 1, 2017, 10:09:50 AM

Being a rabid fan of Master of Orion 1 & 2, I wouldn't mind seeing a retrofit system like in MoO2. If you redesign your ship, you'd need to put it into build que and according to changes it'd take like 1-4 turns to retrofit the individual ship.


In the same vein, there could be tech(s) for deep space scanners that would gradually reveal more information about hostile ships.


Current system works, no problem. Just a thought.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Oct 1, 2017, 3:46:34 PM

Yeah I don't think any of the ideas presented here are bad, but the devs would have to be convinced that there is a serious enough issue to make changes around.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Oct 1, 2017, 6:51:41 PM

4 turns is a long time. May work on smaller maps but would be a pain on that colossal twin galaxy, I'm playing at the moment. As it now is, It's quite fast paced for a 4x game and I like it. There is already so much stuff to wait to be built in this game. 


However, I'm not against a MoO2 like retrofit-mechanic. But they already had it there and ES2 could use something new and nicer then cluttering up the bulding queue even more.


Perhaps we could get an upgrade timer as the repair timer or manpower refill timer. A shipyard could be introduced as a new system improvement to speed upgrading the ships up. Maintenance ships and crews are further ideas. I'm sure this could be expanded quite nicely. 


But I can absolutely live with it the way it's now. It's fast, it's fun - what's more to like?



0Send private message
7 years ago
Oct 2, 2017, 3:19:09 AM

I agree completely that upgrades are too simple. However this post would make a lot more sense if there was a balance to the ships at all. Because you assume that there are counters to whatever type of Fleet your facing off against. Currently there are no counters to a properly designed beam Fleet. So I kind of think in a strange way this issue could be addressed by correctly balancing ships so there are hard counters for the ship designs. Currently to inflict maximum damage there is only one way to design a ship and Fleet. I do believe the issue could be resolved by making the weapons and defenses ships more balanced and structured. The AI currently assumes that counters are functioning in the game and its current state. If these counters were functioning AI fleets would be far more effective. I know in your post you started this with this doesn't relate to multiplayer. But balancing the ships and the current state of the game could considerably make different ship designs more viable ie the ones the artificial intelligence is choosing. I hope this makes a little bit of sense because balance can go along way to making the AI a more effective opponent by making all the weapons and tools that were given in the game more effective. I would like to see a cap on the retrofitting of ships or some kind of mechanism that requires time to change a fleet from X to y. That would definitely make for more difficult strategic decisions.

0Send private message
7 years ago
Oct 2, 2017, 2:11:13 PM

The proposal is reasonable, but, more importantly, you should not know the stats of an enemy fleet unless you defeated it in a battle.

0Send private message
?

Click here to login

Reply
Comment