So I'm not sure whether this is already common knowledge, but I think I found something about how the hidden "Industry buffer" interacts with certain constructions, but couldn't find info about from searching so I will just post this here in case it helps anyone else.  Additionally, I haven't tested this quite as thoroughly as I typically try to, but so far it seems to hold up well enough that I thought it worth bringing up.  However, I easily could be getting something wrong, so please let me know of any mistakes!  

First off, I haven't tested it extensively, but so far Endless Space 2 appears to use a similar Hidden Industry buffer" as in some previous Endless games.  This basically means that if, for whatever reason, your System does not consume all of its Industry output one turn, it will go into a hidden "buffer."  However, I believe that buffer has a limited size which is equal to the Industry output for that system.  This works basically the same as your Science output/buffer, which actually even has it's own handy little indicator in the UI on the Science screen under the "Science per turn" and is called "Science surplus," but only shows up if you either stop researching for a turn or get some bonus science via quests / modules.

Anyway, what is interesting is how this hidden "Industry buffer" appears to interact with Construction Queue items which have no Industry cost, but instead have a fixed # of turns cost.  These constructions include things like the System Development upgrades, the "Chain Gang Program" Manpower generation, the Unfallen's unique Colonization constructions, the Riftborn Singularities, etc. What appears to happen is that any time these are at the top of the build queue, any remaining Industry that hasn't already been consumed this turn yet (for example if a very cheap construction was just above Chain Gang Program), is not actually lost but goes into the hidden "Industry buffer," and will remain there until the next time an Industry-consuming construction is at the top of the queue.  However, remember that this hidden 'Industry buffer" can only hold however much Industry your System outputs in a single turn.  

The implications of this are kinda interesting.  First off, it's nice to keep in mind that any of the "Industry-less" constructions which only cost 1 turn, don't actually slow down your other Industry-consuming constructions in the long run and thus are perfectly safe to put at the very top of the build queue at all times, except in the one case where there is a cheap building/ship which you absolutely need completed right away on the very next turn.  

Additionally, it means that if you want to optimize your systems and never waste any Industry, you should never have any "Industry-less" constructions at the top of the queue for more than 1 turn in a row, since it will start to waste your hidden buffer.  E.G. You should queue up "Level 4 Modernization" for 1 turn, then swap to some combination of things that consumes at least 2 turns worth of Industry in order to use up the hidden buffer, then swap back to "Level 4 Modernization" for another turn, and so on.  

It's kinda neat, although honestly I wouldn't mind if they modified the system by making all the "Industry-less" constructions consume all available Industry, similar to the "Infinite" constructions, so we wouldn't have to do all this fiddling with the Construction Queue in order to optimize things.  Actually, the more I think about it, this is likely an unintended quirk, since it effectively erases the cost/waiting time for all the "Industry-less" constructions; with this method you can start constructing "Level 4 Modernization," have it complete 6 turns later, but also get 6 turns worth of production completed in the same time, so it is just as if you queued up 6 turns worth of constructions, then magically got "Level 4 Modernization" in 0 turns for free with no cost.

Anyways, couldn't tell if this was already widely known, but figured I'd put it out there and hope it helps somebody!

Unless the amount of Industry lost over the course of a game was "very substantial" I can't see that level of Micro as a necassary thing really. The lose of resources late game is also a thing (999) and can be remedied with constant Sell orders, but after a while, it matters little in the grand scheme.

Not to say that the OP is not interesting stuff but there is "optimizing" and then there is "Holy Moley Batman! doing that is just... :)

AlmondBrown wrote:

Unless the amount of Industry lost over the course of a game was "very substantial" I can't see that level of Micro as a necassary thing really. The lose of resources late game is also a thing (999) and can be remedied with constant Sell orders, but after a while, it matters little in the grand scheme.

Not to say that the OP is not interesting stuff but there is "optimizing" and then there is "Holy Moley Batman! doing that is just... :)

Yes, I wouldn't say that this is by any means a game-breaking issue, especially in late-game, but certainly in multiplayer games I can see it as "unecessary busywork" considering that:

• If two players are at roughly equal skill level, the one who is wasting on average, say 5~10%, of their Industry will now be at a disadvantage and less likely to win
• In the early game, for players using Riftborn especially, or possibly Unfallen, who have "Industry-less" constructions they may wish to build very early on, getting the equivalent to 1~4 "extra turns" of Industry in the first 20 turns (depending on how many "Industry-less" constructions were made) could be quite significant, as it can mean the difference between contesting a prime outpost, getting through a blockade, etc.

In any case, regardless of how much of an advantage it gives you, I would prefer the game to either makes all these "Industry-less" constructions just consume all Industry while at the top of the queue, or give them all a wait time of 0 turns.  As it stand right now, they essentially only have a turn-cost for people who don't bother to micro-manage them, which just seems silly.

As an update, I just figured out something related: the Riftborn's "Machine Embodiment" construction seems to be a special case.  I haven't fully figured it out yet, but at least when there are no current Riftborn in the System, and the System has more than enough Industry to construct one, it acts like the other "Fixed-turn, Industry-less" constructions such as Chain Gang, System Upgrade, etc.

This meant that in my system with ~180 Industry, putting Machine Embodiment (costs 50 Industry) to the top of the queue, with other constructions below it, the constructions below it never got any Industry applied to them.  Similarly, putting a super-cheap construction above Machine Embodiment in the queue always pushes Machine Embodiment to Turn 2, no matter how cheap the item above it is.  Machine Embodiment always consumes at least an entire turn, even though it only needed a fraction of the Industry.  However on the following turn, it acted as if my hidden "Industry buffer" was full.  This basically seems to mean that no matter how much Industry my system has, and no matter how cheap Machine Embodiment is, if I construct one every turn (and keep shipping them away to keep the cost cheap), I can't build anything else in that system.

UPDATE 2: STAR BOOGIE-LOO

OK, I've played around a bit more and... Machine Embodiment is just plain weird.  Here are the "rules" I've been able to suss out so far:

• Whenever a Machine Embodiment construction gets completed, the Construction Queue just stops where it's currently at for the turn.  No Industry spills over into the next construction in queue, no Industry goes into the hidden 'Industry buffer," all construction stops and all Industry is consumed for the rest of the turn whenever a Machine Embodiment gets completed.
• Industry can, however, "spill over" from other constructions which are above Machine Embodiment in the queue.  This can be enough to complete the construction above it, and Machine Embodiment all in the same turn. (Then all construction halts when Machine Embodiment completes)
• The listed "turns until completion" UI elements in the construction queue accurately predict that all construction halts when a Machine Embodiment ends, and so give you an accurate forecast of how long the items below Machine Embodiment will take to construct
• Oddly, the listed "turns until completion" UI elements in the construction queue do not accurately take into account that Industry can indeed "spill over" from items above Machine Embodiment.  Essentially, these UI elements appear to think that no Industry will be able to spill over, and so in a system with 200 Industry, placing a 100 Industry ship at the top of the queue with Machine Embodiment (50 Industry) below it, will list Machine Embodiment as requiring 2 turns to complete, even though both will complete on the same turn.

This makes it very... difficult to plan out efficient construction order when making Machine Embodiments, because depending on where they're placed in the queue it can result in up to an entire turn's worth of Industry being wasted each time.  For example, in a System with 1000 Industry, placing a Machine Embodiment with a cost of 750 at the top of the queue consumes exactly as much Industry as placing a Machine Embodiment costing 50 Industry : all of it.  Unless, of course, you place a combination of constructions directly above it which consume the extra 950 Industry in the same turn.

Even if nothing else is, the inaccurate UI turns counter part must be a bug.  Should I just submit a report about all this stuff together?

EDIT 3: The Postening

Alright, this just keeps getting weirder.  I think I found one exception to the rule of Machine Embodiment not letting the Industry "spill over" to the next construction: Fabricated Forces.  However, it's still doing it in a strange way.  As far as I can tell from some quick tests, the "normal" Infinite-Industry constructions, which convert a % of your Industry to Dust or Science, do not accept any "spillover" Industry from constructions above them in the queue; it appears they only function when placed at the very top of the queue at the end of the turn.  However, Fabricated Forces is an exception, and appears to accept "spillover" Industry from items above it in the queue, and converts 50% of however much Industry "spills over" into Manpower.

EXCEPT, when the item above Fabricated Forces is Machine Embodiment.  Then things get interesting.  In the special case of these 2 constructions interacting in this order, from my tests it seems 2 things happen:

• The additional population from Machine Embodiment is calculated into the System's Industry output before Fabricated Forces looks at how much Industry to convert to Manpower
• Fabricated Forces then looks at the new total System Industry output and converts 50% of that to Manpower, regardless of how much of that Industry output has already been used this turn.  For example, if your system outputs 151 Industry, placing Fabricated Forces at the top of the queue will generate 50% of 151 = ~75 Manpower for that turn.   However, placing Machine Embodiment with a cost of 150 Industry above Fabricated Forces, will generate a new Riftborn pop, and give you more than 75 Manpower (75 Manpower + Manpower generated by additional Riftborn pop) all in the same turn.  

The big takeaway is that currently, from what I can tell, there is no reason not to always place Fabricated Forces below your topmost Machine Embodiment in your queue.  No Industry from Machine Embodiment would "spillover" into anything else anyways, and this way you get a full turn's worth of Fabricated Forces every time you complete a Machine Embodiment.  I'd say this is a rather significant development, regardless of how much impact the other issues have.