I think this is one of those cases I was talking about in the lore thread .  One where headcanon HAS to come into account or your own story has to be written to fill this gap. This is where Amplitude sits back and says "okay, what do YOU think happens?" and lets you use the game engine to tell that story. What DOES happen when these two meet? It would be neat if there was a unique quest or something for when that happens, but I think they want to use a light hand here. I think pretty much every possibility put out in this thread is valid. Maybe they WOULD become uneasy allies. Maybe the UE would become the Vaulters guardians and protectors.  Maybe that's not how things would go at all -- maybe the UE would try and plunder/dominate/assimilate them and the two would become sworn enemies, becoming two sides of the same coin in a glorious battle. Or maybe somewhere even in-between: maybe the two would become very heated rivals but have a deep abiding love/respect for each other even as they occasionally come to blows.  (think something very anime/manga there, storywise)

Which of these is most likely? Which of these is canon?

This is for you to decide, through your gameplay and your own interpretations of this setting. This is especially the case with the UE, whose general role in the story varies greatly based on whoever is playing/controlling them. In the hands of some players, they are very much a villainous faction looking to step on the necks of the universe. In the hands of other players, the UE is mostly just putting up a severe front but is actually a surprisingly humane/progressive group who wants to bring about a golden age for all.  (even if they sometimes have to use a strong hand to do it)   Both interpretations are 100% valid, I think, and it all depends on you. The UE in particular has some of the most philosophically different choices for each quest branch.

I wouldn't completely discard the empire completely as ruthless "capitalist authoritarian" empire.

At least they aren't quite as dystopian as some seem to portrait them.

One big part of why I'm saying this is in fact, our glorious leader Emperor Zelevas.

Going from the Quest, especially in the beginning, he definitely represents the perceived values of the UE.

Especially because he's paraniod because of all that rebellion stuff going on.

But at the end, specifically the UE ending of the quest he does seem to realize that during all that time he tried to forcefully put down the rebels he could have tried to solve the issues causing them. He does indeed try to make the Empire a better place but the Quest endings are pretty open so wheter he suceeds is anyones guess.

(In fact I presonally find the Mezari ending scarier because as far as I remember they prevent future rebellions by building a machine that predicts what people are gonna do? dunno gotta replay that and I've never tried sheredyn yet)

Also regarding Zelevas representing the UE: It's not just Zelevas who's paranoid but the empire as a whole. Thats why they're so expansionist, because if they don't control a system someone else will and can we really trust them to not betray us one day?

One could actually use that for interpreting the reduced influence cost when staying as UE. By losing the paranoia they have less problems with diplomacy.

But then again, might just be me.

Yeah I know what Amplitude says, and I don't disagree - it's a game without a set story but only possible stories and branching choices. But this kind of discussion would be entirely pointless if we don't use the lore constructs we have. As much as each game is a personal story for the player, you just can't ignore what's written as well. In this case I'm not talking in general, I'm directly referencing the texts we read as you change your empire to your liking. And of course, you could make it a democracy. Everything is fair game, but the reference point is the lore, and in this case the lore you get when you change the UE to whatever you desire. Even a democratic UE will not truly erase the whole temperament of the faction, which is expansionist and domineering. Each gameplay is mostly just your canon for that game, and then it changes with each following game as your gameplay and decisions change. Fair enough. But I'm working only with actual lore information in all 3 scenarios, assuming the default political system. We can further analyze with changing the political systems, but of course some of them contradict the lore (like forcing your citizens to do science even though you are a democracy). Unless someone posts their gameplay and says "look at my story", I can only talk about all possible quest outcomes, which are equally possible canon stories in themselves. It

Just remember that the player is the X factor here. No empire has any identity without someone guiding it. That's why each faction on the select screen tries their best to convince you, the player, to pick them. Even the Cravers can become tragic antiheroes in the hands of a pacifistic, inspired player.  I feel like it's important to take the lore for each faction as kind of a starting point instead of accepting it as the whole story written in stone. The Riftborn in particular bear this out, because their story leads them to either lashing out against their new universe or opening their hearts regarding it.

And if you say "it doesn't matter what the player does, the story is the story" you'll find that Amplitude disagrees with that stance because it invalidates people's experiences.  You're very much meant to make something of the story yourself. How an empire will behave from one game to the other (or who they'lll make friends/enemies with) can vary wildly. I do think it's very important to understand that certain factions do have some very strong undertones, esp. in the case of the UE and Lumeris, but what it ultimately leads to is yours to decide.

dobyk wrote:

I just want to chip in on the UE identity. Many people bring valid points, but I want to emphasize one thing - no matter what you transform the UE into, they will always remain capitalist, authoritarian and willing to sacrifice the "little people" for the greater good. No matter what you choose, the federal capitalist pseudo-feudal structure will remain in place, with dukes and barons buying whole systems, controlling them and not caring. The only thing that changes, apart from faction ideals and focus, is the desire to assimilate and dominate other factions. With Sheredyn this is the strongest desire to conquer and destroy, to trample. The Industrialist default (and in my head most iconic and "canon" version) will still want to dominate other factions, but are more open to diplomacy and cultural conversion, although the military is always a choice. Finally, the Mezari Empire is the least interested in seeking intergalactic dominance, although it is still a ruthless and authoritarian empire - it's just that now it values science. It would be the most inward-looking an least bent on assimilating others, but it would do many things to acquire desired scientific information, one way or another. It's not really a much friendlier version, just more passive.

Agreed that the United Empire is corporatist in its very structure and will have considerable wealth disparity (although how widespread and oppressive poverty is remains unclear or up to interpretation).  The Empire is capitalist through and through, but with very strong involvement of the central state (especially considering Emperor's Will). 

At the same time, it could become a democracy in the game – which can be interpretted as a democracy only when it comes to the election of members of the Legislative body but the executive (the Emperor) remains an unelected authoritarian position.

From a socio-economic point of view the United Empire shares traits with various different and even contradictory political systems ranging from feudalism, to capitalism, corporatism, fascism, 19th century colonialism / 'empire building', hints of totalitarianism, federalism, etc.

Which is quite clever imo because a political entity of that scale and magnitude would not be easily comparable or identifiable with a historic equivalent that we are familiar with – something on that unseen scale is going to be structurally different from what we have come to experience in real life.

I just want to chip in on the UE identity. Many people bring valid points, but I want to emphasize one thing - no matter what you transform the UE into, they will always remain capitalist, authoritarian and willing to sacrifice the "little people" for the greater good. No matter what you choose, the federal capitalist pseudo-feudal structure will remain in place, with dukes and barons buying whole systems, controlling them and not caring. The only thing that changes, apart from faction ideals and focus, is the desire to assimilate and dominate other factions. With Sheredyn this is the strongest desire to conquer and destroy, to trample. The Industrialist default (and in my head most iconic and "canon" version) will still want to dominate other factions, but are more open to diplomacy and cultural conversion, although the military is always a choice. Finally, the Mezari Empire is the least interested in seeking intergalactic dominance, although it is still a ruthless and authoritarian empire - it's just that now it values science. It would be the most inward-looking an least bent on assimilating others, but it would do many things to acquire desired scientific information, one way or another. It's not really a much friendlier version, just more passive.

KnightofPhoenix wrote:

Fantastic post Midnight Tea.  It is true that the United Empire is the most open to interpretation and undergoes radical transformation in the game depending on your choices that are actually reflected in gameplay.

One can very well make the argument that the United Empire is a fascist entity, or a pretty decentralized federaton that is an 'empire' in name only, or actually a collection of different identities and groups including aliens which all identify with the larger Empire as a unifying political umbrella.  And it can be played as such. 

What is a shame though is that the prologue is clearly protraying the Empire as a colonialist dystopia, but the Empire and Zelevas as written in the actual game quest aren't necessarily best reflected in the prologue. 

Thank you! (and thanks Twimpix!)

I feel like the prologue fits them, all the same. I do think they put up a fascist front because of the strong image it gives them. That kind of swaggering ego is understandable when faced against an endless cosmos and an uncertain future. Also, in many roleplaying type games, people will always pick the human or human-analogue race by default. I think establishing that the UE are not necessarily pure was necessary to give those sort of players a pause for thought and get them to seriously consider playing some of the other factions. But at the end of the day, that IS a propaganda film and it's probably not wise to take propaganda at face value. The United Empire, I daresay, is likely either a much more humane or a much more sinister faction than that prologue implies. Again, which is which will depend on the story that plays out over the course of the game. It does make them a fantastic faction though, and certainly not "boring" like a lot of space 4X human analogues would be.

I feel like the part where it zooms out after the propaganda film is over is probably the most important part of that prologue. It portrays a rainy, rusty city where not a lot is happening. This implies, yeah, the glory talk in that film is pretty much all show. And the quiet rainy pause that settles implies that what happens next is uncertain, as far as their future goes. Will they live up to the bluster and be viciously domineering? Or was the propaganda film just swagger meant to cover their own impending identity crisis from the populace?

(It's also worth mentioning that ES2 is one of the few space 4X games out there where it's possible to change your government entirely. It's more than possible for a UE game to end with them being a scientific democracy for instance, all the more fitting if they've also assumed the mantle of the Mezari.)

Fantastic post Midnight Tea.  It is true that the United Empire is the most open to interpretation and undergoes radical transformation in the game depending on your choices that are actually reflected in gameplay.

One can very well make the argument that the United Empire is a fascist entity, or a pretty decentralized federaton that is an 'empire' in name only, or actually a collection of different identities and groups including aliens which all identify with the larger Empire as a unifying political umbrella.  And it can be played as such. 

What is a shame though is that the prologue is clearly protraying the Empire as a colonialist dystopia, but the Empire and Zelevas as written in the actual game quest aren't necessarily best reflected in the prologue. 

We all know that they have a same ancestor, Mezaris. After Vaulter escape from the Auriga back to space, Did vaulter contact United Empire?  Will the two factionshave have more interactive in the next story? Will they build an united government? Will United Empire admit their cousins?

I just afraid that the Vaulter seem to be independent of the Endless Space 2 story. They even dont contact the other factions in this universe.

Sorry, i just a foreigner player, maybe our game version's translation was not so precise. But i do dont see much interactive in Vaulter. Just like they tell their own story.

I m really thankful for your answer, and some are really great. But some I disagree that, actually the UE had contact and conflict with these factions. For example, the Pilgrims. As we know that Pilgrims are the scientists who against the UE policy and its political system. So they betrayed the empire and built their own system. Even so, their strength was still weak and they cant against the empire strong power, so that they seek for help and shelter from the Sophons. If you read the ES1 hero story, you know I m not making up stories. Above things are all recorded in these Pilgrims hero's background description. Thats why at ES2 galaxy, the Sohons's default minor factions is the Pilgrims. 

At least in this line, we can see the United Empire, the Pilgrims and the Sohons, the three factions have interaction with other two factions. If you wish, we can find more faction interactive in this detail: the reason why the Unfallen take part in this game is because they saw some UE soldiers ready to hunt a Riftborn, that was they called "the fire"; from the official art you will find that the UE already have conflict with the riftborn, and the Cravers. The game art really shows much thing and drama detail than I thought.

Now, back to the main topic. Will the Vaulter has more interaction with the UE just like other factions with the UE? And what are the attitudes of these two factions? Will they recognise each other as the Mezaris in the future? Thats my question. Because all these things are background. Not a story or drama created by player. I just want to make it reasonable.

Trynstark wrote:

I think It depends of how the United Empire is in your headcanon lore. I always play with the United Empire and choose the Mezari quest line and I think my United Empire (now Mezari) can see advantage to have Vaulters as allies but I can't say the same if I choose Sheredyn or stay as United Empire.

Well the choice of staying as the United Empire gives you 'silken diplomacy' (cheapening treaties and making you more effective in pacific conversion), which clearly indicates that the United Empire, if left unchanged, will become a more diplomacy and influence based faction rather than the militaristic Sheredyn or the potentially isolationist Mezari.

I think people conflate the United Empire from ES1 with the Empire from ES2 – the two share a lot of similarities of course but other than the colonialist prologue propaganda video, nothing suggests that the United Empire wouldn't be a key diplomatic player in the inter-galactic scene. Definitely self-interested, but not indifferent or necessarily callous to everyone else. 

Furthermore it's apparent that the Hissho are integrated into Imperial society from the get-go. 

i assume the get some vodka, some greasy food, and have a good time

those are exellent wuestions, im sure the lore people will be here to set you up