So I went for a deep lore bath in the forums when that idea hit me: Do the Kalgeros and Cravers have a common ancestor?

I don't have much to base my theory/hypothesis other than a few similarities between these species, 

and why it would make sense for the Endless to splice the "Insectoid life form" genes with some Kalgeros gene, or the inverse.

This is speculation on my part.

Exhibit A: Let's count the arms, shall we.

Cravers: 4

Kalgeros: 4

4=4 CQFD/QED, we're done here. Joking.

But also here's an interesting quote about the Kalgeros:

Over time they developed a martial art that they call "Mardamari", unique in the galaxy for the number of limbs required to execute it.

And there's only two other species in ES2 that have the necessary number of limb to master it. Those guys who have 6 arms and the Cravers.

Exhibit B: Battle Tendancy.

Both species, have beligerent character traits.

Cravers:

The Cravers were created by the Virtual Endless to use as a weapon against the Concrete Endless.

--ES Wikia

Cravers are in the purest sense hunter-gatherers.

--ES2 Wiki

Kalgeros:

As they moved from protecting or conquering a tree to a tribe to a village, the society realized that its somewhat belligerent tendencies had to be channeled.

--ES2 Wiki

Exhibit C: More Biology.

Cravers: Let's look at this 3D render of a craver.

Doesn't look like there's much exo-skeleton there, no? 

Au contraire, it looks like the craver is based off a species with an endo-skeleton, like mammals, birds and fish.

Also note there isn't any obvious insectoid appendage here.

Kalgeros:

They're quite strong for their size, ideal for fighting.

The Kalgeros's relatively small size is countered by their surprising strength and agility.

--ES2 Wiki

And from a gameplay perspective both those species have a big growth rate. The Kalgeros spawn freaking everywhere and can overcome the native population of a system very easily.

And the whole point of the Cravers is to expand as fast as possible.

Exhibit F: Fail!

Well, let's remind ourselves of the fundamental contradiction about this theory/hypothesis.

Cravers:

Created by the Endless from an insectoid life form (...).

Kalgeros:

Having evolved from a marsupial-like species (...).

Also this:

That doesn't look very mammal.

Conclusions: My own wild speculation.

Now, here's my hypothesis. The Virtual Endless want to create a biological thinking weapon, 

they look around and see that small species that has more limbs than they do, and is quite strong and agile, while also being quite aggressive and reproducing fast.

Those are the ancestors of the Kalgeros. 

They also see the ancestors of the Tikanan and/or of the Necrophages, and they also see the ancestors of the Hissho.

They want their foot soldiers to be as efficient as an ant colony but also individualized enough to have initiative and think creatively.

So they splice those three-four species togheter. They use the Kalgeros as a base for the body plan and base strenght, the insectoid for the whole hive mentality and resilience, and probably add a bit of Hissho to make them taller and stronger. They add cybernetic enhancements and they get greatest killing machines of the galaxy.

So, why would they use the Kalgeros as the base for the Cravers rather than use the "insectoid lifeform" like the lore says?

First there's the size scaling issue, you can't grow giant exo-skeleton creatures under normal gravity, that's why the biggest exo-skeleton lifeforms on Earth are still smaller than a cat and they usually live in the sea to counteract gravity. The exo is too heavy. Also, since those animals don't have lungs they need an oxygen rich environment to breathe via sort-of osmosis. And because exos don't have lungs they cannot use as much energy as lung-having creature, thus they can not move as fast as the competition after reaching a certain size.

There's also the problem of metabolism, the insects' methabolism is dependant on the ambient temperature, so they move fast when it's hot and move slow when it's cold. They're cold blooded, and not in the sense of 'good at murder and capitalism'. The only warm-blooded animals on Earth have endo-skeletons, i.e. birds/dino, mammals, and some fish.

Mammals also have another neat trick up their sleeves with their metabolism, they can sweat, which means they have a tight control over their body temperature, making them very adaptable.

And you want your ultimate soldiers to be able to fight in every enviroment include ice and sand deserts, right?

Also, let me add that mammals can lay eggs like the platipus, and act like ant colonies like the molerats.

So here's my case on why the biological basis of the Craver is more likely to be mammal-like, in particular, Kalgeros-like rather than insectoid like the lore says. 

What do you guys think?

Here: The four discussed species side by side:

"This is a disgrace."

@Suis3i

Sorry for the late reply, but let me defend some of my wild speculative points.

Exhibit A:

The Cravers are an insectoid species, and so their muscular physiology is completely different from that of the Kalgeros (a mammalian vertebrate).

No, if you look at the ES2 coloured render of the Craver hero, the musculature looks exactly like what you'd see in a human anatomy book, the muscles are clearily attached to a bone-like structure. This makes the Cravers obviously vertebrate, which insects are not.

(...) they probably would not have that many "functioning" arms w/o the cybernetic enhancements that are located throughout key parts of their bodies

The Craver render look like he could easily use his two top arms (biceps, triceps), move his torso (abs), and walk without any cybernetics, the artist clearily used human anatomy as starting points for the super soldier. Only the lower two arms seem to be attached awkwardly, they seem to be only able to "hug" and not do much else without cybernetics. I speculate that those two extra arms are used for keeping whatever ancestors of the cravers "hugged" at a tree while the two upper arms reach for food, a bit like how new world monkeys use their tail to free up their arms.

While the Cravers seem to have limbs that do not end in appendages

 Again, in the coloured render it's clear that 3 out of the 4 arms have fleshy 5-fingered hands.

(...) they would somehow be able to get rid of or even be unable to include the 2 fingers and thumb of the Kalgeros.

Those fingers are already included in the 5-fingered fleshy hands.

Exihibit B:

(...) the Assimilation trait of the Kalgeros is "Obedient Flock" which is completely opposite to the Cravers, who are in no definition an "Obedient Flock" to any non-Craver or Virtual Endless Being.

You just contradicted yourself here, the Cravers are "Obedient Flocks" to other Cravers and Virtual Endless.

This sentence was simply a way of introducing the Kalgeros's unique Martial Art (...).

Which is an emphasis on the fact that the Kalgeros might be even more belligerent than other civs if their whole culture is based of channeling aggressivity. Human culture is belligerent but I'd argue that its current culture is based  more on curiosity (novelty) and greed (capitalism) with some cooperation mixed in than any other traits.

Exhibit C:

The 3D Rendering is the product of (model) sculpting. So, of course, you're not going to find an exoskeleton as that is not how sculpting works.

I did one semester in 3D animation at school and I can tell you that making hard-ish surface like exo-skeleton is not impossible nor peculiarly hard. One the few first Pixar films in the 90s was about insects because it was easier to render hard surfaces than to render fleshy bits. Also before 3D modeling automobile manufacturers mandated sculptors to sculp models of their new cars for demonstration. Cars are not fleshy.

Craver species is heavily cybernetically enhanced. What it appears as is the Cravers are just one giant striated muscle being whose exoskeleton has been more or less replaced by cybernetic enhancements. Basically a caterpillar with metal on it instead of its original shell.

Again, the muscles are clearly connected to an endo structure.

As for the Kalgeros, them being physically strong for how small they are, has really no connection to the Cravers.

Why not, the Cravers are ridiculously strong for their size. 

They can pull people / humanoid alien arms from their sockets. 

Also, both species have extremely fast population growth rates for reasons that have little to nothing to do with each other. The Cravers collection 150% FIDS from undepleted planets, meaning that their growth rate, which is a direct result of the amount of food that they produce is going to be higher than normal. Also the Kalgeros have a population approval bonus of 4-6 and the higher the approval rate of a planet, the more food it can produce thus increasing the growth rate. (Content: 10% Bonus, Happy: 20%, Escatic: 30%).

Emphasis mine. When both species are put on a planet they increase the food production. That doesn't really contradict my argument. Kalgeros have sustainable way of increasing production and Cravers have an unsustainable way of doing it, that's the only difference.

Conclusions:

The reasons why the Virtual Endless actually created the Cravers is found after completing their quest. Other than being a near unstoppable military force with the intention of destroying untold amounts of Concretes, the Cravers were actually a prototype of the Wasps (fully mechanized Cravers that a Virtual Being can inhabit, anywhere and at anytime). They were never originally intended to remain as biological creations. However, this program was cut short when the Virtuals deemed them useless and planted them on Husk, bombing it to near complete destruction.

I didn't know that bit of lore (the wasp part), thank you! But still, it doesn't contradict my hypothesis, Cravers where biological prototype, they don't have to be insects to be that, and they were never meant to exist past their usability from the begining but they still survived thousands of years on a post-apocalyptic planet.

The Tikanan were not a sentient species until human colonists brought them to the splinter-colony world of Abelard. 

The ancestors of the Cravers didn't need to be sentient, ours weren't.

Both the Necrophages and the Hissho were species tampered with by the Concrete Endless, not the Virtual Endless.

There's a thing called spying, and the Virtuals splintered off the Concrete.

The rest of your stuff doesn't exactly make sense, b/c it stems from the assumption that the DEVs got it wrong and that the Cravers are actually what you said not what they said.

It's all speculation on my part, and I based it off the visual information we were given. The DEVs can get it wrong they're humans and humans tend to follow the rule of cool when it comes to fiction rather than aiming for scientific accuracy. So, they might say something is some way, but show us something else because it looks cooler that way; like sound in space.

(EDITS: added one illustration of insect muscle anatomy, corrected various typos and ponctuation, added (...) to some quotes)

Suis3i wrote:

Exhibit A: 

The issue with you stating with such hubris, that the Cravers are obviously vertebrae and not some sort of insectoid species is not really debatable in the first place as they are stated by the lore given to us by the creators of the Cravers (aka, DEVs) to be insectoid lifeforms. Whether or not the 3D sculptor made some artistic decisions when sculpting the prototype Craver body that made it appear to some people (in the 3D render) that the Cravers bones are attached to a "bonelike structure" has little to nothing to do with whether or not they are stated to be insectoid lifeforms. 

I don't think you get the point of my post.

Cravers are lorewise an insectoid lifeform, but what I am doing is applying some scientific method using what we see to see if that matches what we're told.

They show me an animal, they're telling me it's an insect, so I use scrutiny to see if they're right.

What I am doing is amateur morphology with a bit of lore-mining to support it in-universe.

My rapprochement between the two species started a bit like a joke, but at the end the devs kinda messed up their representation of an insectoid lifeform.

I can't blame the 3D artist since at art school they usualy teach you how to draw and animate vertebrates animals, mainly human figures.

To give some leeway to your theory, however, those bonelike structures could very well be cybernetic enhancements, but then again, from viewing all the (finished) art I've seen in relation to the Cravers, they do not appear to have bonelike structures (at least natural ones) within the upper parts of their appendages or other body parts.

(For example, the Hunters from Halo are an insectoid lifeform that does not have any bonelike structures but are instead a mass of 5 separate individuals who attach themselves to each other to make up an extremely powerful being, and this is w/o armor attaching them or any sort of cybernetic enhancements; when viewing the Cravers like that, it isn't hard to view them as insectoid beings that don't require natural bonelike structures).

Palaeologist use bone structures and marks on the bone to determine the muscle structure of long  dead animals, the same way looking at the way muscles are arranged one guess what kind of structure supports them.

Their muscles clearly analogue the ones on the human body, which is the likely reference the artist used.

I already showed how invertebrates muscle arrangement doesn't look at all like the ones of a vertebrate, invertebrates use a whole different mechanic to move, and the fact that there's no hint of exoskeleton on the Cravers.

From the final render, Cravers cannot be invertebrates. If the Cravers cannot be invertebrates they cannot be insectoids.

Your point about the Kalgeros fingers seems, misconstrued (?)

Just b/c the Cravers have 5 fingers, does not equal their fingers to that of the Kalgeros, they're clearly two different hands, and so by saying 3 fingers on a different hand is equal to 5 fingers on a different hand, you're just not making much sense. Basically, it's oversimplifying it. You can't just include those 3 fingers and then miraculously add 2 more out of nowhere. It's more likely the Cravers hands (5 fingered) added by the Virtuals and made to work with some sort of cybernetic enhancements.

That point is mainly speculation until we get to see the skeleton of the Kalgeros, I said that those 3 fingers are included in the 5 fingers of the cravers. Well actually what I had in mind was that I think that the Kalgeros fingers are fact fused bones like the way birds, bovines and sea mamals phalanges are fused into wings, hoves and fins. Do the Vulcan sign to get an idea of what I'm talking about.

My hypothesis is that the Endless simply de-evolved those bones the same way geneticists today were able to grow teeths on chicken.

Exhibit B: 

You seem to mistaken my comment as some sort of contradiction. The Virtuals, as well as Craver Bishops and Queens, have tools (doesn't necessarily just mean technology btw) in place that allow them to seize control of the Cravers.

Opposingly, the Kalgeros, through longterm societal expectations, traditions, and standards have become an Obedient Flock to any society. 

Societal expectations and traditions are societal tools used for organizing a society, it takes the indiviual's drive to be part of a group to make that individual adopt some behaviour that are favorable for the group. Kalgeros use culture or cultural brainwashing to be obedient flocks. The Cravers we don't know exactly. 

They must have a culture since it's a prerequisite to scientific advancement and complex military organization. The Cravers might keep control using pheromones on top of cultural brainwashing. They might even add on top of those two cybernetics enhancement that limit the free-will of some Cravers. 

What I'm saying is that both culture favor the group over the individual. Which is a thematic rapprochement.

we don't live in a sci-fi fantasy and didn't develop a planet-wide martial art that allows for the channeling of mans natural violent tendencies. 

Which is my point, we didn't develop planet-wide martial art to channel our violent tendencies, that suggest that they are more belligerent than us or the mean.

Exhibit C: 

You're making the assumption the muscles are connected to an endo-structure of some sort based on the 3D rendering, I'm basing my assumption of it being more of a massive striated muscle based on my knowledge of past insectoid (non vertebrate) sci-fi beings, as well as actual, finished images provided by the DEVs, not some 3D render that looks like a prototype of the final copy. 

I'm using the final render with colours, and the uncolored version to highlight some details those are straight from the official sites. And you can't use your knowledge of fictional insectoid as a basis of comparison since those representation can be inaccurate too, you have to use real insects and invertebrate morphology as a basis.

If you take off both extra arms of the Craver and its head the artistic reference becomes clear:

Cravers being strong =/= Kalgeros being strong (or vice versa). 

The species at the basis of the Cravers must have been strong, that's just common sense, why would you build the whole biological weapon from the ground up if nature already did some of the work for you.

For example. A Great White Shark and an Orca both have fins in similar positions of their bodies, they both hunt seals, they both live in the ocean, they both have sharp teeth, and they're both extremely massive and powerful (physically strong) organisms, however, none of those similar characteristics and traits make them related in any sense. 

I laughed so hard, don't you know that both are vertebrates, their common ancestors diverged way later than the common ancestors of the vertebrate and invertebrates.

No one ever said about the Kalgeros production methods being sustainable. Their production boosts to Food, just isn't related to the Cravers. While the Cravers increase food production via a massive FIDS boost due to the Extreme Foremen trait, that has little to nothing to do with the fact that Kalgeros increase food production as a byproduct of them increasing approval ratings in the system. Especially considering that these traits, which have little to no connection in terms of game mechanics, have even less of connection in terms of lore. Which is what we're debating on, whether or not these species are connected through the lore. 

I'm debating both on the lore and biology, and the represented biology doesn't match what the lore says. So I'm trying to find some explanation that makes sense lore-wise to explain that disparity. A the game spawn rate seemed like another good thematic rapprochement.

Conclusion: 

The Cravers, unless Jeff Spock changes something in regards to their lore, are an insectoid species. Not genetic cousins of the Kalgeros. And judging from Frogsquadrons reaction, that is not going to be changed. 

Well, I encourage the devs to change the next appearance of the Cravers to be more scientifically accurate to what the lore claim they are.

(However, if you are going to make a slave species that fight for you in a galactic wide war, insectoid species are probably your best bet, since they breed at higher rates than vertebrates, their bodies are highly durable and easily subjected to genetic and cybernetic manipulation and enhancements, and their more expendable due to the high breeding/production rates).

Many vertebrates have high spawning rate, fish lay hundreds of eggs for example. The limiting factor in mammals is the in-vitro incubation, but if mammals laid eggs (and some do) there'd have a much higher spawning rate.

Tikanan who were not notable nor sentient during the time of the Endless, and only became sentient once Mezans (Humans) were colonizing the galaxy, thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years after the Endless all but vanished from the galaxy, does not make them related to another insectoid species that was tampered with by the Endless thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years before the Tikanan grew to some sort of prominence in the galaxy. 

A hundred of thousand of years is not that a long time in evolution, and we know that the Endless messed up with a lot of countaporenous species, just look at Auriga.

There's a thing called, I know what spying is and there's no indication that the Cravers were the byproducts of the Virtual intelligence apparatus that may or may not have been on Auriga. 

On top of that, if Necrophage related biotech was so good, the Virtuals would have captured Auriga, not bombed it from orbit (which is what they did with many of the notable Concrete held planets). 

We don't have much information on any of the actual military details of that war, but we know that the Virtuals did not value the material world, if they stole the plans they didn't need to keep the lab, especially if it's in the hand of the ennemy.

The DEVs do not "get it wrong" when creating the lore for a science fiction game. Laws of physics, as well as other accepted scientific facts, do not need to apply to the realm of science fiction otherwise many of the cherished things found in science fiction would not be there in the first place. Making the overly arrogant, hubris-filled, and cocky statement that your theory must be more correct than what the DEVs have created simply b/c you believe that your theory is more scientifically accurate than their own words on their own creation is so disgustingly overconfident that it's almost funny. 

Well science is in the name of the genre, if science wasn't important to the writers they'd write non-fiction or fantasy. You know that editors actually pay people like me to take appart their story to point out the scientific inconsistancies to be or not be corrected. Sometimes being scienticially accurate helps the narrative.

Devs are not gods.

For example, the Force in Star Wars, has little to no (mostly no) scientific basis, however, if you try arguing with George Lucas, or any of the DEVs at Lucasfilm about whether or not they got the Force "right" b/c you believe that they got it wrong b/c your view of it has more scientific basis or whatever, is just a plain ole dumb argument, as they got it "right" as it's their creation that does not have to be scientifically accurate. 

To be fair, psychic powers were all the vogue in the 60s and 70s. The US government even seriously investigated the claims of that phenomenon. And Lucas even tried to ground his science fantasy with even more in science when he invented the midichlorians (sometimes trying to be scientific doesn't help the narrative also)

So in this case, no, your theory is debunked purely on the basis, that the DEVs have already stated that the Cravers are an Insectoid species. And by going against what the DEVs have set for the lore of the Cravers, you are debunking your own theory. The DEVs are "Kami" in this case, and the Cravers are their creation, and no one tells "Kami" in his own world, that his creation is not what he made it to be.

You know, they most certainly paid a scientific consultant to do just that.

And art is made to be criticised as much as it is made to be enjoyed.

So unless Jeff Spock comes on this forum, and states that what you said is correct and rewrites the lore of the Cravers to fit your theory (that seems to be logically flawed in the basis that you simply connected the two separate species by their 4 arms and then tried to make more connections where there were none) then, no, I'd rather not restate my points in another manner and argue this over and over and over like Batman and the Joker. 

I'm just mining the lore to make the Cravers more scientifically accurate, that is all.

Anyway if any of you want someone who has an actual diploma on morphology and biology (I'm an engineering major) talking about fictional creatures and aliens go check out that guys channel, he didn't go over anything Endless but he covers Dead Space, Halo and even Doom:

Cheers