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War of the Heretic: ''canon'' sides

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6 years ago
Mar 3, 2019, 3:49:59 PM

While in the game itself the whole Heretic storyline and his attempt to bring back the Lost isn't very well executed, lore wise it presents an interesting scenario.  I have been thinking if each faction would side with the Heretic to bring back the Lost or fight him and prevent their return.


There is of course no canon position - we are allowed to roleplay and pick either side with any of the factions which is reflected by each faction having 2 different outros.  That being said, I find that factions are more likely to pick a side over another based on their own lore, motivations and if an outro "feels more right" than the other.


Here is my interpretation of which factions would join or fight the Heretic.


Pro-Heretic:


- The Unfallen: Pretty obvious as to why. They are intrinsically linked to one of the Lost and are likely to see what happened to the Lost as a deep injustice that needs to be fixed.


- The Vaulters: They are also tied to one of the Lost, Auriga.  Interestingly even with the Heretic losing outro, the Vaulters say they "believed in the Lost."  The Vaulters are likely to side with the Lost in honor of Auriga's memory.


- Horatio: Horatio is the kind of mad genius that would think it's a good idea to bring back the Lost in order to absorb their genetic material to become more perfect.


- The Lumeris: They are likely to believe they can have leverage with the Lost thanks to their dust supply as the outro shows.  They are the kind of reckless fools that would think this is a good idea.


Anti-Heretic:


- The Vodyani: While the scenario of Isyara having a reconciliation of sorts with her brother Isyander is appealing, it is more likely that the Vodyani in their quest to become Virtual will oppose the return of the Lost strongly and not consider their fate unjust.


- The United Empire: The Empire is more likely to prefer operating in a realpolitik galaxy without supernatural beings that would upset the status quo. Furthermore Zelevas wouldn't want contenders while he strives to become God Emperor.


- The Riftborn: As their faction quest shows, the Riftborn's objective is to recreate their home in the Endless galaxy destroying it in the process. To that end, the Riftborn wouldn't want Old Gods to return and interfere  with their plans.


- The Cravers: The Cravers either remain loyal to the Endless or exclaim No Gods No Masters. Either way, it feels more right for the Cravers to prevent the return of the Lost and make the galaxy their fodder.


Can go either way:


These are factions that I can see picking either side with equal validity.


- The Sophons:  I can see them refusing the bring back the Lost from an atheist or rationalist point of view. On the otherhand the Sophons are the kind of people that would think experimenting on Gods to be a good idea...


- The Hissho: I can see the Hissho considering the quest to bring back the Lost and right a terrible injustice committed by their ancient Endless enslavers to be an honorable cause.  I can also see the Hissho viewing the Lost as weak who deserved their fate.


- The Umbral Choir: The Choir may consider what happened to the Lost as a horrible afront to harmony and that the galaxy needs the gods to bring it some peace.  The Choir may also decide that the Lost need to be put out of their misery permanently and/or that they are unnecessary when the Choir/Watcher can bring permanent peace to the galaxy.



These are my thoughts on what I think each faction is likely to do when confronted with that choice.  Do you have any different interpretations  or thoughts?

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6 years ago
Mar 3, 2019, 4:51:43 PM

I like the idea of Sophons experimentation.

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6 years ago
Mar 4, 2019, 2:05:30 AM

I found this very interesting and I really agree with your take on how these races would react to such a quest when confronted with it.


I do find it interesting, however, that when playing the Vodyani -not paying much attention to the lore- and trying to follow the "Religious" paths presented (or at least what I thought helped the regligious groups) I end up with the siding with the Heretic (basically the path best for Vodyani growth and power, especially early game).


You'd think that it would be a bit harder for them to side with the Heretic if that weren't their natural tendensy.


But super fun to think about this!  I'm gonna try my next game with more roleplay in mind!

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6 years ago
Mar 4, 2019, 11:09:24 AM

I think every race have pros and cons of joining either side. For example, Unfallen: on one side, they can try to bring other Lost on behalf of their own creator, but they can choose to not to bring them, because of imbalance this would create or Lost not really on good terms between themselves and return of them would proove dangerous for their master. Vaulters too, they can choose between honouring their legacy as Aurigians, or protecte their future from new unknown force, which Lost would truely be.

So do other. For the entire game, as I know, we knew only 2 of Lost. One died with Auriga, and one gave birth to Unfallen, a powerful race of cosmic caliber. Who knows what their return would bring.

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6 years ago
Mar 4, 2019, 11:46:54 AM

As others have pointed out, there is no "canon" choice, only some choices are more likely than others, but you could also factor in the current galactic state when making that choice, for example, factions would probably want to side with their long term allies given this very important matter, and they might bring in new arguments for or against the return of the Losts. They could even have a change of heart at the last moment, take the vodyani for example, even on the Heretic path of their main quest, they still get asked which side they wish to join.

Ultimately, I think the fact that there is no continuation apart from a small dialogue change in the faction outros means that the writers wanted every player choice to be canon, regardless of any predisposition for one choice or the other for a particular faction.

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6 years ago
Mar 4, 2019, 2:48:20 PM

For the sake of interest to the story and to future Lost-related content (one can hope?), I think rejuvenation outcome should be canon. I mean, what was the point of foreshadowing their return for so long and in so many media, and then just going "nope, not going to happen" route?

Their vision. Your future.

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6 years ago
Mar 18, 2019, 7:36:45 AM

I know the way that Amplitude like to talk about the Endless games' narrative is basically "they're ALL canon," so basically whatever decisions you make in a given playthrough are what happens in that universe. They're intentionally very dodgy on what does/doesn't happen in the lore, because of that. The only time they ever went through with it was the glazing-over of Auriga, and the Vaulters story. Since there aren't any game mechanics that require certain choices (yet) in Endless Space 2, they're all correct.


I do think that we're gonna see the Lost in games eventually though. At least, with more of a presence than their current nebulous godlike influence.

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6 years ago
Mar 18, 2019, 12:09:25 PM

I've thought about this many times myself and I came to more-or-less the same conclusions you have.


I've always pictured the Umbral Choir as a little more pro-rejuvenation though since the death of the Endless sparked the "suffering" that drew them to the galaxy in the first place and the restoring of the Lost would largely "heal" the galaxy and restore its balance and harmony in their mindset, hopefully restoring their own shattered harmony in the process. I think the decision to keep things as they are requires a little more mental gymnastics on their part and would be more an act of desparation than a conscious choice that it was what was best for the galaxy. 

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6 years ago
Mar 26, 2019, 7:36:05 PM

I'm pretty which side Horatio chooses depends entirely on whether the Heretic committed some unspeakable faux pas when he contacted Horatio with his offer.


"I will NOT side with anyone who has the poor taste of wearing white after Labor Day!"

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